• Format
  • Transcripts
  • Interviews
• Type
  • Text
• Extent
  • Duration: 7 pages (transcript)
• Source institution
  • Western Carolina University
• Identifier
  • HL_GSOH_Kitchens_Domke_Hall_2020-11-09_transcript
• Related material
  • Audio transcription read-along tracking version available at Https://bit.ly/3biRh7D

Hall 1 Name of interviewee: Morgan Hall Name of interviewers: Madison Kitchens and Trevor Domke Date of interview: File uploaded November 9, 2020 Length of interview: 30:55 Location of interview: Jackson County, North Carolina, Richland County, South Carolina Morgan Hall graduated from WCU in 2019 and was involved in the sorority Phi Mu, campus ministry at the Wesley Foundation, the UP Program, and the Women’s Club Rugby Team. She discusses her experience coming out freshman year after going to a Catholic high school. Hall also talked about her time in Jackson County as a member of the LGBTQ community. Start of Interview Trevor Domke: Do you want to introduce yourself? Madison Kitchens: Sure. You introduce yourself too. But you go first, because you're the subject. Morgan Hall: Okay. Well obviously my name is Morgan Hall. I graduated from Western Carolina University last May of 2019. Did my bachelors in communication, sciences, and disorders with a minor in special education. I was pretty involved within campus. I was in Phi Mu, one of the sororities. I was heavily involved within campus ministry at the Wesley Foundation, The UP program. My biggest thing was definitely club sports. I was the president of the Women's Club Rugby Team, in different leadership roles within the team for all four years. I moved back to Columbus after I graduated. I've been working as a registered behavioral technician, which is like a autism therapist is the easiest way I can explain it. I don't know if you guys know what applied behavioral analysis therapy is? It's one of the most effective forms of treatment for children with autism, so that's my main background. Then this past spring, I started a graduate certificate, which is just six graduate courses, not a full master’s degree, for applied behavioral analysis. So I'm going to do that along with my speech therapy masters. I just love going to school. MK: I wish I could relate. MH: No, that was a lot of sarcasm. I finished most of the certificate, but I just started my masters in August. So that's kind of where I am. Related to this project, I guess I... Well, I'll let you ask those questions because I'm sure whatever I'm going to say, those will be questions. I'll stop there. TD: It's good to [crosstalk]. MK: Sorry. TD: I'm sorry. [crosstalk] it's great to hear that you were so involved within WCU, just doing all those clubs. It makes our job easier asking these questions. All right, Madison, you can go first. MK: Okay. For the purpose of the interview, I'm going to take notes on my phone so that way I can still see you and hear your responses. Is that okay? Hall 2 MH: Absolutely. Yeah. MK: My first question is, when did you first recognize that you had a relation to and with the LGBTQ community? MH: I would say probably my freshman year of college. I know this sounds a little cliche, but I went to a private Catholic high school, so although I was never against the idea of someone being gay or whatever, I didn't have any gay friends, you know what I mean? No one talked about it. I was always taught within my church that it was okay, but if I ever had an idea of being attracted to a woman, that was just kind of pushed aside and was like, well, I have to like a guy instead. When I got to college, like I said, little cliche, but obviously my eyes were a little opened, you could say. And I had a lot more friends in the LGBT community, especially because of the rugby team. And I was just allowed to express what I was feeling. And so it took a couple of years that I was officially... I came to terms with it and came out as gay my junior year of college. TD: Sorry, I'm taking notes too. MH: No, you're totally fine. That's the point of it. TD: Good. MH: I know it sounds like the very typical cliche, I explored myself when I got to college, but it's just... I'm sure I felt attraction and feelings when I was in high school, but like I said, it was just kind of pushed aside and didn't even think twice about it because it was just like, I'm supposed to like men. TD: Good. Yeah. All right, I guess it's my turn, right? MK: Yes. TD: For our next question is, how did your friends and family react whenever you first expressed your relationship to the LGBTQ community? Because I'm guessing that your parents are Catholic, correct? Just because you were sent to the private Catholic high school. MH: Yes. So, actually I am not Catholic. I just went to a Catholic high school. So, I am part of the United Methodist Church, which is actually extremely inclusive and accepting. So growing up, I was never taught that it was wrong. It's just it was such the social aspect of even the possibility of being gay at a Catholic high school I never considered as being an option. I was in private schools my whole life, because the local public school... Columbus public city schools are not good, I guess you could say. So my parents just sent me to a private school just so I had a better education, because the local school that I would've gone to just wasn't a very good option and safe. My family is not Catholic, but they were all, for the most part, extremely supportive. I didn't tell my parents for a while, but they just knew, because they knew. They had met my rugby team and been around my team for so long that they weren't surprised. They knew automatically when I sat them down, what I was going to say. So I consider myself really lucky. I always say that I just had it kind of easy when I came out to my family, because they didn't care. I would say that unfortunately, a lot of people don't have- Hall 3 TD: I'm sorry [crosstalk]. There we go. I don't know what just happened. My bad. I think Morgan got muted. MK: Yeah. MH: Whoops. TD: Oh my. I have no idea what's going on. I'm so sorry. Okay, you're back. MH: Are we good? MK: I think so. MH: Did you miss anything I said? Do I need to repeat myself somewhere? MK: The last thing I heard was that a lot of people don't get the opportunity that you had, in terms of coming out. MH: Yes. So, I definitely consider myself lucky because I have a lot of friends that did not have that experience, and I have a really small family too, so it was kind of... I only really had to tell half of them because you know how it is, you tell one person, they call the other person like, "Hey, did you hear Morgan..." Blah, blah, blah. But I wasn't necessarily mad about it. It's just because we're all so close. I really have a small family. But the only people that I really had an issue with, per se, would have been probably my grandparents. They're the last people I told. My grandparents on my father's side. I'm not really close to them, but they're still in the family and we would have family events and stuff like that. When I told them she was a little shocked. She didn't know what to say. She wasn't mean about it, she was just kind of uncomfortable. But after she met my girlfriend, it was fine, and now she loves her and it's not a problem. There's only a couple people in my family that I have not told, and that would be my grandma on my mother's side. She is a very, very by the book conservative type woman. We already have family issues with her in general, so it would not be good, or it wouldn't even be worth it to really tell her really for a while. Probably until I get married. So that'll be fun. But in my friends, I didn't have any negative reactions from my friends whatsoever, because most of my friends were also part of the LGBTQ community, so obviously. I had a few friends that I went to the Catholic high school with and I was kind of weary about it. And one didn't really understand for a while, but he is immature anyways, so I didn't really consider that as an issue. But I, again, I would consider myself pretty lucky. I had a very easy and smooth sailing coming out experience, I would say. Pretty long, drawn out answer. TD: Oh no, it was perfect. Definitely a lot of note taking, but that's good. MK: It'll help us with the paper. TD: Hey, sorry. Real quick, Madison. I getting a good amount of background noise from your end, so whenever Morgan's answering a question, do you mind just muting your mic? Just for recording purposes. MK: Yeah. Hall 4 TD: Okay, cool. But I mean, now you can the question, so you [inaudible]. MK: Was is it like being a part of the community in such a conservative town and area? MH: Honestly, I didn't really have a lot of issues in Cullowhee because I was always surrounding myself within organizations and communities within Cullowhee that were supportive. Club sports is extremely inclusive at Western. Rugby has, I don't know if you guys know much about rugby, but it already has the stigma of a lot of lesbians play rugby. So there were already a lot of obviously gay women on my team. And then, like I said before, through the Wesley Foundation, which is... I don't know if... You guys are freshmen, right? TD: I am a second year. MH: Okay, cool. Well, I can remember Madison said she was a first year, so I wasn't sure if she was a freshmen. Anyways, so the Wesley Foundation, if you don't know where that is, it's directly across from Brown, so it's attached to the Cullowhee United Methodist Church where that playground is. Just for picture it, if you wanted to. I was there a lot and it's extremely inclusive, so I knew that, I prepared myself because I knew that Cullowhee was such a conservative place in the rural area of North Carolina and I knew that I had to surround myself with people that were going to be inclusive, so I didn't deal with any issues. There were definitely, if I was out on a date somewhere or out with my friends that were more physically appearing to be part of the LGBT community, there were definitely some eyes and some looks, like at the local Walmart or whatever. But I mean, you're going to get that anywhere. I kind of just had to teach myself and remind myself that I'm going to be who I am regardless, and I'm going to be with my friends regardless of who we are. And I really try not to let myself let that get to me. I really didn't have a lot of issues in Jackson County, in the area. I don't know. Just like I said, I always made sure that I surrounded myself with people that I wouldn't have issues with because I just kind of assumed that there would be, just because of the culture. Because it's not historically a town to be gay friendly, per se. But I mean, I feel like the gay friendliness is growing in Jackson County, especially in Sylva, so I mean, that's a good thing. And that is as why I got so excited when my friend shared this project idea with me because, I don't know, it just needs to be talked about more, I think. TD: Yeah, definitely. I mean, I'm always working, so I'm always near a lot of locals and I'm just really happy to see that Western and some of that culture from Asheville is even spreading over here, and it's just becoming a more open community. So I'm really proud to see that going on here. I guess, well, you kind of answered our fourth question during that, which also helped. I was going to ask if you ever received backlash. Oh Sorry. This is a little different question pertaining to backlash. Did you ever receive backlash from your support system, such as your family? I know you talked about you’re not wanting to talk to your grandma on your mother's side, but have you ever received any unwelcome backlash from your clubs or anything on WCU, where it feels like it's such a safe and open community, but still received it in some way? MH: I don't think so. I'm trying to remember. I mean, if I did, it was something so minor that I just didn't even think twice about it. I didn't even officially tell my sorority sisters until my senior year. I mean, I came out publicly in my junior year, but I didn't physically tell them until my senior year. Because I was just worried, because I was never fully involved with Greek life, but there's such a stigma with Greek life and I never really fit part of that culture. And so it just worried me what they would say because I knew I had some sisters and friends in other organizations that were extremely conservative, so I didn't want that to impact my relationship with them. But I mean, I Hall 5 was fully supported across the board in all areas. I mean, my sexuality didn't affect my involvement with academic organizations. I didn't need to bring that up with them, but the church organization and sports and stuff like that, it was never an issue. If anything, I mean, being involved in campus activities was more of a strength. That was a support system more than anything. I never had any kind of backlash from that. If anything, rugby definitely made it better, made it a better experience at Western and in Cullowhee. TD: This is going to be a follow-up of the question I just asked. So you said that you knew, of course, some conservative friends and even some conservative members of any sororities. So was there any personal friends that you knew were conservative that you either told or they found out, and they were still welcoming and open to it and still very happy for you? MH: Yes. So definitely a few of my sorority sisters were totally unfazed, which was a good feeling because I just didn't want to feel like an outcast in an organization. And I had a friend back home who was really conservative, but she was fine with it as well. TD: All right, Madison. You're still muted, I think. MK: Sorry. I was finishing my notes. So I know that you said that you felt supported and didn't really have a lot of backlash, but did you feel like the community and campus represented you and the community for the LGBTQ community as a whole? MH: I don't know if the community as a whole represented LGBTQ community fully. I think Western does a really good job of having activities. We always had famous drag queens come and perform at the UC. They had a Pride week or Pride events. I, unfortunately was never able to attend them because I always had rugby practice or something. But I think Western definitely did try to be very inclusive and have events and show their support. But I think there's always room for improvement. They could always do more. And I mean, there's always the guy that comes and stands around the fountain and screams Bible verses at people and tells everyone that they're going to hell. I don't know if you've seen or heard of him. But that always draws quite a crowd of the LGBTQ community whenever he is there, and they make it more of a entertainment than anything. But I think that is definitely a local doing that, but you're going to get that anywhere. So I wouldn't really necessarily associate that man with Jackson County, it's just the only example I can really think of the community, because he is from the area and he uses that, in example, to go to a liberal college to yell at college students that are gay. But you're going to find that anywhere. But I think that the Jackson County and Cullowhee and Sylva could definitely improve with how they represent the LGBTQ community. Maybe put up some more flags, have more events, just have more statements saying that it's gender and sexuality inclusive and other stuff like that. Because I never felt that I was not included within the school and I wasn't welcomed by the school, but I know that other people felt that way, that were more discriminated against. Because I, like I said earlier, I know that I had it easy because I just was extremely blessed to have a very supportive family, and my parents are very supportive and my friends are very supportive, but I also don't appear to be gay, you know? There's that stigma of what a lesbian is supposed to look like. I mean, I look like a bum right now, but I usually have my hair and makeup done and I dress very effeminate, so if you were to look at me without knowing me in public, you would never know that I am in a relationship with a woman, you know what I mean? Whenever I tell someone that I'm gay, they don't believe me, and then it's like, "You don't look gay." And I said, "What is gay supposed to look like to you?" So I already have it easy there in the sense where if I was walking around Jackson County or school, I already have that privilege of not being discriminated against. While I have easily half Hall 6 of my rugby team who are more masculine or dress a certain way, they are immediately going to be looked at a different way by other students or professors or community members, because they don't fit the norm. Because you can look at them and know that they're gay, you know what I mean? I feel like that answer just... I went off topic there a little bit. But I was just saying that I was never discriminated against by Western, but I know other people have been, so there's always room for improvement, but I don't think Western does a bad job. I was always very happy and I never felt like I didn't belong there, even though it was a conservative town. TD: You actually answered the next question too, which is kind of funny. We were going to ask, what do you think Jackson County or WCU can do better to help include or give attention to the LGBTQ community? So I'm glad you answered both of our questions within that. MH: Sorry, I talk a lot. I stray off. TD: Hey, no, keep on talking because it's definitely helping us and helping us get to know you and hopefully we'll be able to write something better for these archives. And speaking of the archives, since you did answer that question, I just made one off the bag, and I guess this will be our final one, but so for these archives, very happy that they're being thought of, being created, hopefully that they'll be up within the next year or two. So whenever we do go finish these archives, should they definitely be advertised or displayed for future students or staff members? MH: I'm sorry. Are you asking if it's okay if it's displayed? I think you cut out for a second. TD: Oh, sorry. No, I meant to say part of as the welcome to Western, do you think these archives, they should be advertised and displayed during our open house and stuff like that? MH: I think so. Absolutely. TD: Just so these new students that are part of the LGBTQ community can have something to look forward to and read and feel more inclusive. MH: Absolutely. I think that Western should definitely display these because I think it's important for these freshmen, or transfer students, whatever. I mean, let's face it, most of North Carolina is not very gay friendly. I mean, they're going to have some towns, but it's a traditionally very conservative state. And so a lot of these students that are coming to Western are coming from... I mean, not everyone is from Charlotte, not everyone is from Raleigh, not everyone is from a city. Most of my friends came from small, conservative towns in North Carolina, so I think it would be extremely important for them to see that Western already accepts them for who they are before they are actually students there. TD: Yeah, I totally agree. Thank you so much for that answer. And I think we're good to start wrapping up. MH: Cool. If there's any other questions, you can always text me or email me, whatever. I'm always around. I'm currently attending Zoom University, so I have lots of free time. TD: Madison and I do too. We have to now quickly type this up and send it in by Friday. But again, thank you so much. We're scrambling with this today and we're just very lucky that you answered and were able to meet tonight. Hall 7 MH: I'm sorry I didn't have any crazy stories for you. Everything was very easy for me at Western. MK: That's good, though. TD: Yeah, that was really good. Thank you so much for your answers. MH: Yeah, absolutely. TD: They were all great. MK: Thank you. MH: Yeah, well, thank you for taking the time to interview me as well. TD: Of course. Well, good luck with your future studies. MH: Thank you, you guys too. Stay safe. MK: Thank you. TD: Thank you. You too. MH: All right, have a good night. MK: You too. MH: Bye. TD: Bye.

Morgan Hall graduated from WCU in 2019 and was involved in the sorority Phi Mu, campus ministry at the Wesley Foundation, the UP Program, and the Women's Club Rugby Team. She discusses her experience coming out freshman year after going to a Catholic high school. Hall also talked about her time in Jackson County as a member of the LGBTQ community.

• Creator
  • Hall, Morgan
• Contributor
  • Kitchens, Madison
• Format
  • Sound recordings
  • Transcripts
  • Interviews
• Type
  • Sound
  • Text
• Date
  • Date interview: 2020-11-09
• Extent
  • Duration: 00:30:55 (sound recording)
• Subject - Topic
  • Athletics
  • Coming out (Sexual orientation)
  • Gay community
  • Hall, Morgan
  • Lesbian college students
  • Lesbians
  • Student activities
  • Students -- Social life and customs
  • Western Carolina University -- Students
• Location
  • Jackson County (N.C.)
  • Cullowhee (N.C.)
  • North Carolina, Western
• Source institution
  • Western Carolina University
• Source Collection
  • WCU Gender and Sexuality Oral History Project
• Identifier
  • HL_GSOH_Kitchens_Domke_Hall_2020-11-09
• Related material
  • Audio transcription read-along tracking version available at Https://bit.ly/3biRh7D
• Repository
  • Western Carolina University Hunter Library