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  • Duration: 28 pages (transcript)
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  • Western Carolina University
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  • HL_MSS98-03_Crittenden_Colbert_1986-08-11_transcript

Louise Gaston Colbert 1 WESTERN NORTH CAROLINA TOMORROW BLACK ORAL HISTORY PROJECT Interviewee: Louise Gaston Colbert (C) Interviewer: Lorraine Crittenden (I) County: Cherokee Date: 8-11-86 Duration: 1:00:19 Lorraine Crittenden: Mrs. Colbert, what was your family's source of entry into North Carolina? Have they always lived here? Louise Gaston Colbert: Well, my family, the ones that raised ne we come from Asheville here. Originally we lived in Hendersonville. As far as me remembering being in my hometown, I don't remember just about 11 months. So we came from Asheville here and I have been here. My aunt raised me of course, she left and went to Charlotte, which they are down in Charlotte, but my uncle by marriage was a porter on a train, you know years ago there used to be porters on the train, so they cut out the porters and he said you could live cheaper here, so we moved here from Asheville. I: Have your family members ever been outside of North Carolina and they migrated, came to North Carolina? C: I really don't know because see it was just me and I really don't know all my people. I: Ok well, if you’ll think back just a minute and trace your family tree as far back as you can remember, let's begin with your father's father. C: Well, I don't know him. I: You do not know your grandfather on your father's side? C: No. I: What about your grandmother? C: I don't know her either. I: On your father’s side, What about you’re on your mother's side? C: I didn't know her either. The only one I know on my mother’s side was my aunt that raised me. I: What’s her name? Louise Gaston Colbert 2 C: Well, she married a Perry Huff, and her name was Cally Huff, she used to be a Richardson too. Then I had an uncle, it was her brother you know aunt Cally’s brother, the two of them, that’s all as far as my people. I: Your aunts and uncle. And you didn't know your mother? C: My mother’s people? See I was seven years old when my mother died. I: Oh. Now, were your brothers and sisters older or younger than you? C: There was one older and the other two was younger. I: Are they still living? C: No, they are dead. I: So you are all that's left of the family? C: Yes, all that I know of. I: What about your aunt and uncle? They die also? C: They are dead, too. I: Is there any other relative in your family that you remember? C: You mean the older ones? I: Yes, mam. Well, tell me how your aunt and uncle made a living? C: Well, she did housework. I: Where was this? C: Well, she did some in Asheville and some here. I: How long were you in Asheville? C: Well, let’s see my mother died when I was seven and we come to Murphy I guess we come to Murphy just before I was 14. I: So you lived in Asheville for 14 years? Thereabouts? C: About 7 years I guess. I: Where were you before? Brevard? Before Asheville. Louise Gaston Colbert 3 C: Hendersonville. I: So your mother and father started out in Hendersonville? C: No, my mother used to live in Brevard but she come to Hendersonville I guess from Knoxville. She got sick and come to Hendersonville and that is where she died. Then she gave me to my aunt, you see, and then she raised me. I: Did she raise your brothers and sisters? C: No, see my brothers and sisters died before my mother did. I: May I ask what happened? C: The house caught on fire and the smoke killed them. I: What a tragic? C: Oh, yes. Now that happened in Knoxville. I: Alright in Knoxville, so your mother came from Knoxville, Tennessee, to Hendersonville and from Hendersonville – C: No. She died in Hendersonville. Then that is where my aunt took me in Hendersonville. From there we went to Asheville. I: Now, what does your uncle who raised you, what was his name? C: Perry Huff. I: What did he do to earn a living? C: Well, after he quit portering on the train, he just did anything he could find. I: Where was he a porter? C: From Asheville to Murphy. I: Wasn’t that considered a pretty good job? C: Yeah, a pretty good job then. I: What made him quit? Louise Gaston Colbert 4 C: Well, you see they quit having porters, that’s why. They just kept a few like Pullman porters and things like that. The train in fact quit running here. So he used to run from Asheville here and then from Hendersonville to Lake Toxaway and through Brevard. I: So you stayed at home with your aunt. Now did she work outside of the home? C: She didn’t then, when I was small. After we moved to Asheville, he was still a porter, but she just did housework for different people. I: And you were in school so she didn’t have to worry about someone taking care of you? How much education did your aunt and uncle have? C: I think very little. I: Could they read and write? C: She could, I guess he just about had to, well evidently he had to be a porter. I: He had to have some, but they were not highly educated. C: No. Huhuh. I: Now, how far were you able to go in school? C: I just went to the eighth grade. I: Eighth grade? C: I moved here and right then that was as far as it went in Murphy. I: Was there just the one school? C: Just the one school. I: How long was the school year? C: Eight or nine months. But, you see, I couldn’t go then because you couldn’t go farther than the eighth grade. I: OK. In order to get the higher degree, you would of had to leave. So You were probably around to 13 since you didn’t go off to get a higher degree. What did you do? C: I done housework. I: were you about 13 or 14? Louise Gaston Colbert 5 C: Yes, about 13 or14 when I started out working. I: Did you work at any one place for a long length of time? C: No. because I married young. The only time I worked when I was young, I didn't work too long, but after I got old I did, one particular place. I: How old were you when you got married? C: Sixteen. I: So you had two or three years after finishing school. C: Yes. I: Now during that time were you required to give your money to the family? C: Uh huh. I: What did you get out of working then? C: Nothing. (laughter) I: So you had to bring your money home? C: Yes, you see, this uncle he wasn’t really my blood uncle. But she was my aunt, and she had to do the same thing. I: She had to bring her pay home too? C: Yes. I: What were you making then? C: Well, the biggest I ever made was when I worked at a laundry called Murky Laundry. I made $9.00 a week was the highest I ever made, back then. I: Was that five days a week? C: Six. I: What did you do in the laundry? C: Well, you know I ran sheets through a mangler, then I would hang up the clothes in a dry house and start, like that. I didn’t iron. Louise Gaston Colbert 6 I: There was a dry house? C: Yes, there was a place made in the wall somehow like the shirts that you had to dry, you'd hang them on that thing and it wouldn’t take them long to dry. I: Oh, really. Then that was all you had to do, hang them up? C: Yes, I also starched them but didn’t iron them. They had someone else to do the ironing. Well, myself, and whoever it was would be two, be four rather, it would be two on one side and two on the other to catch the sheets as they went through the mangler to dry. I: Uh huh. Did you work there the longest? C: Yeah, while I was young I did. I: After you had married, where did you live? C: Well, I lived the first place was in town, or the first place I lived I didn’t live there too long but the house isn’t, going down the hill from the Imperial Laundry, I don't know if you know where that is or not. I: Is it still there? C: Yes, that laundry is there. It's a different one, but the laundry is there in the same place. It was a house down under the hill. I lived there for about a year. Then from there we moved up on the branch and I lived with Aunt Harriet Powell. There was some old houses there and they was maybe each house had two apartments and different ones lived in it and I lived there. I: Did you marry someone from Murphy? C: Yes, Vardie Colbert. I: How do you spell his name? C: V A R D I E I: Vardie Colbert? I: What did he do for a living? C: Well, he worked down at a filling station. That’s what he done. I: What did he do? C: Fixed cars, wash cars. Louise Gaston Colbert 7 I: Could he repair cars? C: I don’t think so, he just pumped the gas and clean them up. I: Uh-huh. How many children did you have? C: Eleven. I: Since you had eleven children, did you work outside of the home? C: Yes. After, let’s see I started working when my Carolyn was - yeah, I worked outside the home, I can’t remember the year but I worked at one place for 40 years. I: What was the place? C: Waldemoney (not sure of spelling) used to be a drug store. Well it still is a drug store, but the old lady and man is dead. Come on in. [Someone at door] Delivery service is here [Rose Hooper arrived] they’re dead, but now their son still operates the drug store. I: The one downtown? C: Uh-huh. I: You worked for the family? C: Yeah. I worked for the old lady and man about 41 or 42 years. I: Were you the maid? C: Yeah. You might as well say the maid, the house - everything. I: Did they have children? C: Yeah. They had three. I: Did you help raise them? C: Yeah. I: What was your work day? What time did it start and end? C: Eight o'clock until sometimes 5:00 in the evenings. I: So who was taking care of your children? Louise Gaston Colbert 8 C: Well, at that particular time they had gotten big enough to kind of look after themselves, and then before that there was a woman named Arena Smith and Bessie, I know you know Bessie Carter. She goes out in that family you know when I was going to be late they would look after the children. I: Oh. Were your children close in age? C: Yes, pretty close. Except the last three they weren't at close. Sone of my children was, my first two was about fourteen months apart and the others was just about two years apart. I: Now were you and your husband able to give your children an education beyond the eighth grade? C: Well, after so long a time when my children got so big we separated, but I had all of my children finished high school, but then I had one to finish college and she made a teacher. I: Where did she go to school? C: First she went to Allen. Now I’ve sent, two of mine went to Allen. I: What were their names? C: Carolyn and Ruth Colbert because she was a Mix when she died. I: What do you mean a Mix? C: That was her last name, well, really she took her name back because her and her husband separated. She has just been dead about four years ago. She moved to Charlotte and lived there. That's where she graduated and finished college there. I: In Charlotte? Johnson C. Smith? C: She used to go to Johnson C. Smith. I: She was a teacher? C: Yeah she was a teacher, but now I don’t know here she was teaching after. She taught at so many different schools after they integrated, you know. She taught school twenty some years. I: That’s great. You had another daughter to attend Allen? C: Yeah. Her name is... She lived in Asheville. I: What’s her name? C: Carolyn Long Louise Gaston Colbert 9 I: Carolyn Long? C: I don’t know if you know any of the Longs or not who live in Asheville? I: No, I am not familiar with that name. C: But she works at, well she didn’t go to college but she finished at Allen. I: Now in the olden days, you had to pay for them to go to Allen didn’t you? C: Yes. The girl I am talking about who finished school, see my husband was in the service and that’s why she got to go to Allen. Because we took the money and put her through Allen. I: Was he in service while the children were still at home? C: Yea. Uh huh. He was in World War II. I: OK. Alright and your other children, did they stay here? C: Yeah they had to go to different places to go to high school. I: Such as? C: One of them went to Cincinnati, Ohio, the one who came in a while ago, he lives right down there. He went awhile in Cincinnati, then he cone back to Murphy and finished high school. He didn’t finish there because even after you got like I said certain grade, I forgot know which in the later years, you had to leave here before you could finish high school. I: Right. C: Then. The state gave maybe $50 a month on the schooling. I: No. I didn1 t realize that. Now you were given $50 if you went away to school? C: Right. Now my first one, my first two- I: What are their names? C: That was Ruth, and she didn’t get but $10, that is all they would give then was $10 a month. But you see, she stayed with my uncle in Charlotte and that is why she got to finish. I: Oh. C: And then course, well… Louise Gaston Colbert 10 I: The other one who went to Allen was given money by the state too. And your son who went in Cincinnati? C: Yeah, he was given money by the state, and I had another son that went to Charlotte and he was given money by the state. He stayed with the same people my daughter stayed with to go. They were given 50 dollars a month. I: And that payed for room, board, and tuition? C: Well, it helped. Ruth then helped them out because she was working and whatever they needed she helped them out because I couldn’t afford it. I: Was your husband in the service all this time? C: No, not all the time. I: Part of the time when the children were growing up. C: Well, just maybe two years and after that why I had to do the best I could. I: Well, that is amazing that you gave them that opportunity. C: I had an older son who worked and would maybe give some of them something, you see. I: Right. Did any of your children have training in a specific area other than the one who was a teacher? C: No. They just - well one of them went to join the Army and that is what helped school Carolyn. I: Uh-huh. I see. C: Cause after the $50 a month the state gives and then he would give her $50 dollars. I: I see. C: That was Carolyn. I: And then she went to school, in Charlotte? C: No that’s when she was still in Allen, she graduated at Allen. I: Ok. So the older brother or sister would help the younger ones? C: Uh huh. Louise Gaston Colbert 11 I: Are all your children still here in Murphy? C: No. Carolyn lives in Asheville. I have one son here he stayed in the Army almost 20 years but he didn't and he lives here. Then I still have a son in the Army, he is in Germany. I: Is he making that his career? C: I don't know, if he don't have much time he might be. He might have about two more years left. I: Before his 20 years? C: Yes. I did have this son that helped he stayed 20 years. I: While he was in the Army he didn’t learn some trade? C: Well, what it was he done it in the Army, I don't know Whatever the Army had him to do. Some sort of like… he didn’t do nothing when he came back because when he come back he was an alcoholic. I: Uh-huh. C: But he had things I noticed he said, now what was it, some sort of operator. He worked in a hospital and something else, I done forgot, I would have to look the records up and find out. In fact, on the outside, he didn't know how to work on the outside. I: Because he had been in the Armed Forces for so long. OK. You mentioned that your husband was in World War II. C: Uh-huh. I: What do you remember about that time? C: Well, just. I: Was life any harder for Americans? C: Well, really it wasn't any harder for me. I: So you weren't adversely affected by the war. So your husband came back alive? C: Yes, he came back alive. I: Where was he stationed? C: He was in Germany Louise Gaston Colbert 12 I: Did you ever hear him speak of the colored troops and the white troops? C: No, not him, really he didn't talk much about it. I: What did some of your older… C: Now Medford, this one who stayed 20 years. He would talk about it sometimes about, well, he was in the Korean War and he talked about how it was there and how they would fight and you know he didn't like that of course. It done something to him, I don't know what it did because he didn’t like to talk about it. I: After the war? C: After the war. Uh-huh. I: I found it to be a common thing, that once you serve like in Vietnam War, my brother was there, that old soldiers don't like to talk about the war if they actually fought. C: This one that's here he don't talk about it either. He was in the? I: Vietnam? C: He was in Vietnam I: Now this is your? C: That’s my youngest boy. He was in Vietnam. I: Can you tell any difference in him? C: Yes, there's a difference in him, one thing he can't be still and I don't know, he seems - well I don't know what’s wrong with him. I: Did you take advantage of the GI Bill to go to school or anything? C: No. Now, I don't know what he done when he came back because he stayed in Germany a lot, stayed in Kansas, it was about three years since he come from Germany and whatever it was he done, he used to do these exercises and stuff and he had a troop like that. I: Oh, some kind of sergeant? C: Yes, he was a sergeant. I: He was a sergeant. How about a drill sergeant? Louise Gaston Colbert 13 C: I don't know what kind, but he was a sergeant. [Laughter] I: So he is here now? C: Yeah. He lives on out the road. I: Since you are familiar with World War II and the Korean Conflict, do you remember the Depression? C: Oh yes, I remember that Depression. I: Would you describe what you remember for me please? C: Back during the Depression, really lots of times you wouldn’t know where the next bite was coming from because back then there wasn't any jobs and when you, would get about $3.00 or $3.50 a week, or nothing much. I used to pick blackberries for 10 cents per gallon. I: A gallon? C: 10 cents a gallon. I: They charge what now, 5 dollars? C: Oh, about $5.00-$6 for a gallon. I: Oh, my goodness. C: We would get out and pick wild greens and all that to have food and I canned, you know. Seem like back then people you must raise more food and you had to can. I: Everybody had a garden almost. C: In order to make it. I: Right. C: A lot of people was good about giving. Then I used to wash for buttermilk. I: Washed for buttermilk? C: Buttermilk. I had. I: How much washing did you do for buttermilk C: I had two washings and they didn't have any money to pay, once they had had money, but the banks you know. Louise Gaston Colbert 14 I: Went bankrupt. C: Yeah. And they had the cattle and they had milk and I didn't have to iron them, I just washed them. I: On the rub board. C: On the rub board. Now, we lived on number 6 then. I: What Is that? C: That’s a place on up in there were Maye lives. [inaudible]You know where Maye and Jean lives? I: It's been a few years since I have been there. C: Well, I used to live on that same spot and that's where I did my washing and ironing for the children's buttermilk. I'd get a gallon every other day and we would have milk and bread. I: Milk and bread. Biscuits and cornbread or? C: Uh.-huh. I: And that 1 s how you survived? Now, was your husband here at that time? C: Yeah. He was. I: Could he find work? C: Sometimes he did. It was just pick up work. Sometimes he could have worked but he would be drunk, new just that the truth. He’d be drunk and wouldn’t work. I: Did he ever work for the WPA? C: Yeah. I: He did? C: Yeah. I: Here in Murphy? C: Here in Murphy. I: So he was doing public work, building streets and digging ditches and such? Louise Gaston Colbert 15 C: Uh. -huh. I: Times were hard, you said. Do you think they were harder for you as a black person than for a white person? C: Well, the poor whites was just about like me because they didn’t have anything either, because they were somebody who lived below us that was in the same category we were and they had to do the best they could. I: Where were you living then? C: I was living in the same spot that Maye lives and down below me they would call down the branch there was some white families and some of them bootlegged for a living and, of course, you can always make it bootlegging. I: Right, bootlegging whiskey? C: Yes. That’s what some of them did and they'd get caught and sentenced. I: Were they sentenced to a jail term? C: Oh yeah, but somebody else in the family would carry it on so. I: We do what we have to do to survive, don’t we? C: Yeah, that was the whites. I: And the black people just had to pick up or go hungry. C: Yeah, go hungry do the best they could. I: Were there any relief programs during that time? C: I can’t remember back then, but later on there was a little relief program. I: Was that about after World War II or something when you were given the stamps? C: Yeah. Now World War two. I: That’s when your husband was there. C: You were given stamps for like sugar and shoes. I: There was a period I could remember some of the older people say when you had to stand in line for some hard beans cooked all day and they would never get tender? Louise Gaston Colbert 16 C: But you know, the funny thing, I don’t know why, it was a very little help that I ever got. Long at the last, I don’t know why you know some people I never could understand why some people could get something and I couldn't. I: With eleven children, you couldn’t get it? C: No. They all back then, most of the blacks done the same thing, they got drunk and just like other people. The ones that na.de the most money that I can think of right now worked in the laundry and that was Frank Siler and when he was working he made better money. I guess there was others, too, but I can't think right now. They lived pretty good, but the other people like you said that could get stuff they would say, ''You've got a living husband", but others would have a living husband, but I don't know why that they knocked me out. I: Now, was this just among the black people, or black and white. C: Well, I think [inaudible] some of the white was like that too some could get some couldn’t, that’s the way it is now. I: Oh. OK. C: Some can get Social Service, whatever it is some can get it and soma can't and some really don't seem to need it. I: Abusing the system? C: Uh-huh. I: When you think back to your younger days, which people were considered the leaders in the community? C: Well, there was Ms. Lucian Slyer was one. I: What did she do? C: Oh, she was a good church worker and could get out with the children you know, and then there was Ms. Frank Sitter's wife, Ms. Cecil was a good lady. I: You mean his mother? C: His mother Frankie Malone, you know Frankie Malone died, his mother she was a good woman. She died out in there somewhere. I: What was her contribution? What made her a leader? C: She was a preacher but she was a real good person. Louise Gaston Colbert 17 I: She was a minister. C: I think she was, she was just was real good person. She could get out and lead. Back then it seemed like the young people would follow to people like that. I: So far you’ve have talked about the leaders as being Christian people, was there no one else in the community people looked up to? C: Not that I can remember. I: So it was the ·preacher or those involved in the church? Would you agree with me the fair statement, was to a large degree, the "meeting place" of the community? C: People went to church back then. I: Is that different than from today? C: Yeah. People don't go to church like they used to. I: What other difference do you see in the religious customs? C: I don’t know, they just not together like they used to be. I: Specifically, is there a difference now in the way communion ceremony is performed and then? C: No. It’s about the sane. I: May I ask if you were a protestant, Baptist, Methodist? C: I am a Baptist, when I first joined the church I was a Baptist, but my aunt was a Methodist and I had to go with her most of the tine to her church, but originally I have always been a Baptist. Then for a while, I went to the Episcopal church here in Murphy. I: Now, has this been during your later years. C: Later years, yeah. Used to it was all black, we had one place to go and it was all black. Then it merged and I went to town over here to the Episcopal church. I don't know, I just didn't feel right. I: Welcome? C: I guess I think it was me because they treated ne alright, but I just quit and came on back up here to Mt. Zion. Louise Gaston Colbert 18 I: Do you think there is a difference in the ministers of today? C: Well, I believe ministers way back used to be maybe their beliefs were a little bit more stricter, I don't know some of them now. I: Now, did the ministers of yesterday visit the sick? C: Yeah. A lot of them did. I: Was housing provided for the minister like it is now? C: Yeah: it was. They always had a place to stay. They stayed in different homes. I: So he didn't necessarily have to live here, he just came here to preach? C: Uh-huh. I: He would stay at your house one night and someone else's another night? C: Yeah. That's right. I: OK. C: Today that's the way most of the time he stays, this one stays with Bessie and Shike most of the time, but he has stayed out there at Emma Moore's or, you know, just different places but most of the time he stayed and Bessie and Shike. I: can you think of any other religious custom that have changed from when you were younger? C: No. Baptist have about the same ways. I: Both of the churches were small, did they ever get together for special occasions? C: They used to be another church here and it was a Methodist, they used to go here two Sunday's and then on down of course, it's not here now. Ain't but one church here now for the blacks and it’s this one. I: I see. But in the earlier days there were two? C: Uh-huh. I: Did you ever get together and support each other? C: Yeah. They used to get together and you’d go to my church and I’d go to yours like that. I: If money were needed for something in the church, how was it earned? Louise Gaston Colbert 19 C: Well, they used to have entertainments. I: When you say entertainments, what is that? C: That was selling hot dogs and things like that. I tell you one thing we used to do because this pastor don’t have that. We used to have entertainment and the young people would dance, you know, and some of the older ones would sit there and watch them and it was clean. I: Right. C: Because I remember Ms. Lucian (or ma.yt>e Lucy Ann) there she used to come and sit and watch the kids, you know, and some of the older ones, but they had a good time. I: Right. C: But you don't have a good time like that now, everything has changed like that now, so we don't usually raise money like that. I: Was the school a central meeting place? C: It used to be a school where we had all our entertainments and then like if you had a lot of times big meetings you would go down there and that was where your meals would be cooked. I: At the school? C: Yea. Everybody would get together and they would eat there. I: Were there political meetings held? C: No. I can't remember. I: Do you remember the first time you voted? C: Oh, I remember but I can't think how many years it’s been, it’s been a long time. Now when I first moved here they didn't vote. I: Right but it was after the Civil Rights Movement, right? Dr. King. C: No. We was voting before that. I: Did you have to take the test that said you could read and write and all of that? C: No. I didn’t, I don't know whether anybody else did or not cause I could read I guess. I: Right. OK. Would you say, what other social activities were there in the community? Louise Gaston Colbert 20 C: Well, there just wasn’t any, we used to— I: What did younger do for fun? Or older people? C: Well, just like I said, the entertainments were the only thing they ever had. A time or two they might of had a fair. I remember that on the Fourth of July they would have something. You know, a sale or something like that. There just wasn't anything around here to do. I: Were there any special customs for Christmas? C: No. I: Everyone had a tree? C: People had trees at home and they would have a tree at the church, but if there were anything going on you would have it, just different ones, separate this year I’ll meet at your hose just a few like that and go a different place and have little get together, but as far as anything else there wasn’t anything to do. I: Nothing community wise. C: Not till then we got this community building and tried to run it but you couldn't run it right. Young people are so much different nowadays. You can't tell them nothing because they won't listen. I: Right. Let’s look at some of the leaders in the past, what about now? Who would be considered a leader in the community? C: Well, to be honest with you and far as my - since Frank died, he was the best leader, now he was a good leader and right now I can’t think of anybody else. I: Let me give you an example, if for example there were potholes in the road or children in the street, but the street wasn’t marked with "children playing" or "slow down," would go to the county office and say we need this done for our community? Is there a person here who can do that? Or will do that? C: There is somebody who can do it, but I don’t know whether they will or not. Now you take Ella Jackson, she was pretty good about things like that. She has a bunch of kids of her own. As far as I know, I never knew when they go. I: Are there black professionals in this community? Teachers, Lawyers, Doctors? C: Huh-uh. No. I: What do people do for a living? Louise Gaston Colbert 21 C: They work at, some of them have good jobs. There ain’t no teachers or doctors here. Some of them have worked at the bank some work at the no. I: Frida? C: She works somewhere, I don’t know what she does, but they say she has a good job, but really I don’t know what she does. I: Do you think that the roles of the black person have changed over the year, I’m saying from hard labor, maid? C: It has changed, but the thing about it. A lot of them don’t get the work. It’s changed, I don’t know, sometimes I think it’s the people. Some of them won’t work. But now there’s several who have pretty good jobs. Most of the people that to works work at Levi’s. That’s just a plant. I: Oh, I see. C: Now, Ruby’s daughter works at the bank and one works at the Forest Service that’s her daughter. I: What do you think made the difference? C: Well, I think the Civil Rights changed a lot of the work because used to all they wanted in a black person was for them to work in the kitchen. I: Do you remember the first black person who owned a business in Murphy? C: The only one that I could remember whoever owned a business that was years ago and they had a little old pressing club. I: What’s a pressing club? C: Where you take in clothes and clean and that was Andy Wiley, and that was years ago. I: He owned that business? C: Yes, he ran and was renting the building I: But it was his business. C: It was his business; I can’t think of anybody else. I: Can you think of other contributions that blacks have made to this community ty, for example, is there or was there someone skilled in brick masonry, carpentry, anything like that? Louise Gaston Colbert 22 C: Well, Fred Hall can do that, but he don't work at it much now. They went to school when they was giving these. I: CEIDA jobs, Operation Mainstream? C: He went to school for that, my boy did that, too. I: Oh did he? Does he still do it? C: When he gets something to do, but he don't work at it. You know if you want to work, you got to stay sober and stay at your job. I: Right. C: Now he can do good work, when he is at it. I think that is one reason why the blacks don’t do any better here, they don’t stick to anything. I: Does he have an alcoholic problem? C: Yeah. He takes them spells drinking. I: Let’s go back a little further. During your growing up days, if someone wanted a house built in the earlier days, was there a person that they called on? C: No. I: Who built the houses then? C: Back then they built their houses themselves. They’d save money and build one or two rooms at a time and keep doing like that. In these late years when they begin to get these FHA homes, things like that. I: During the earlier days when we didn’t have the steel coffins who built coffins? C: Well, now, this man is dead, his name is Wood Hyatt, he used to build them. I: He would build coffins? C: I remember that. People couldn’t afford to buy them. I don't know whether he did it for the Whites or not, but he did it for the blacks. I: Now were these pine coffins? C: Yeah, but I believe he covered them. Louise Gaston Colbert 23 I: He covered them? C: Yeah. They were fixed up you know. I: Was he trained? How did he learn that? C: I really don’t know. I: During the olden days, the body was brought home, how was the body preserved? C: They had some sort of fluid that they might put on them or do something cause they wouldn’t have money to embalm one. I: Right. C: They would keep them maybe two days or something like that and that is about as long, unless it was winter time, you know, might last a little longer. I: And so they had the …. [tape is silent] C: ... the only way would be, yo.t mean like violence or something, what do you mean? I: Violent or neighborly. C: This town is right neighborly between the white and black, but, too, now, it used to be it a black kills some white person they would flair up. I: The whites would flair up? What would happen? C: I think it was a lot of talk. I remember when Herman, they said Herman did it, which he didn’t do it, Herman Wiley killed this white guy, which he didn’t do it and everybody was afraid and somebody came through and throwed a rock or two or something like that. I remember my son, he was the oldest one and maybe somebody was on this end and had guns or something, but nobody never did anything real bad. Just maybe say something right smart. Really this is a pretty good town. I: Were there special occasions that the blacks and whites got together? C: Well there have been, I remember Ms. Lucians sister and her husband, they used to come and live with her. And some of them would stay and Ms. Lucians husband was friendly and some of them would come and stay with her, and visit and get along fine. I: And because you said earlier you went to church. Louise Gaston Colbert 24 C: Yeah, I remember a long time ago the whites used to come here sometimes at the church even before they integrated. The Catholics, some of the different anyways, some of the blacks belong to the catholic, they go to the catholic church. I: So there was limited interaction. So as long as you stayed in your community and went to work and minded your own business there wasn’t any trouble? C: Huh-huh. They didn’t bother you. I: Do you remember if blacks were allowed to go to the hospital in Murphy? C: Yeah. Whenever they built one here as far as I can remember. Well, it’s been a long time, but blacks could go to the hospital. I: Was there someone here skilled in mid-wifery? C: Uh-huh. They are both dead. That was Ms. Vic Hall and Rena Smith. I: So did most of the women have their children at home? C: I had all mine at home. I: So these two women delivered most of the babies? C: Uh huh. I: Can you think of others like them who have special skills, like perhaps there was someone in the community who was good at doctoring at home? And could use urbs and all that to cure different ailments. Was there someone in the community like that? C: No. I don’t think so. If you had a cold, the old ones would tell you what to get out and get boneset and stuff like that you use, originally, I guess you would know to use that by the older ones telling you. I: You didn't have a medicine man? C: No. Huh uh. (laughter) I: Was there someone gifted in another way, sewing, cabinet making, anything like that? C: I can’t remember anyone making cabinets. I: How about building houses? C: Well, like I said… Louise Gaston Colbert 25 I: Now, I'm not saying just for black people. C: I guess there was, but I can’t remember anything about them. I: Was there ever a blacksmith? Or anything like that. C: This man, Wood Hyatt, I think that is what they say he used to do. He had a little place down the road and they claimed that is what it was. That is the one I said to build is coffins. I: Uh huh, I see. On a cold winter evening, how would you and your family entertain each other? C: Just stay in the house and we would get out and hunt our wood, we had to hunt our wood, you know. You didn’t buy it - you did get so sometimes you could buy it but you got out in the woods and got your own wood and just stayed at home. I: OK. Once you were inside, what did you do for entertainment? C: Nothing. I: You didn’t read or draw or anything? C: I didn't, I didn't have time. I: I don’t imagine so, with 11 children. How did the children entertain themselves? C: You know, a lot of times they would play with toys and sometimes they would run out but they didn’t, I guess it was just natural they weren’t used to it. I: So during the winter when it was cold and dark outside they just sat around the fire? No one told stories? Was there ever a story teller in the community? C: Not when mine was growing up. I: In later years? C: These past years, I think you can go to Tri County, not Tri County, this other place, it’s a school. I: Tri county tech? John Campbell Folk School? C: Yes, that folk school. There used to be someone who came in and told stories. I: During your growing up years there was no one who told those famous ghost stories? C: No. Not to me. Some families may have, but I didn’t because I had something else to do. Louise Gaston Colbert 26 I: Were there such things as vacations? C: I never had one. I: Do you remember when your family had its first car? C: Let’s see, which one of them had the first car? One of my sons Neil had a car. I: So before then if you had to go, say to number 6 or downtown. C: You’d walked. I: You walked? C: Yeah. I: Were there horses and buggies when you were young? C: There were horses and yeah, I’ve seen the white people pass here in them. I: Most black people walked? C: Walked. Now Jim Bill, he had a horse. When I was talking about the white people come in and live with them. He had a horse and ride it to town. I: Jim Bell? C: Jim Bell. I: Was he white? C: No, he was part white. I: He was part white, that's interesting. He lived in the black community? C: Yes. He lived over in here. I: Did he always live here? C: Well ever since I knowed him he lived here. Now he was Ms. Lucian’s brother in law. I: What other historical events or periods do you remember? C: Right now, I can't remember anything. I: What about the Civil Rights Movement? Louise Gaston Colbert 27 C: Yeah. I remember that when they was doing all this fighting. In fact some of the kids had to like go to these stores. That was them down there in Raleigh and Charlotte going to school. They would have to stand, you know. One of my boys got so mad, I think somebody kicked him one time. He wanted to fight so bad, but he didn't. I really think that Dr. King really made it better for us. I: In which ways? C: In our equal rights, I think he did. I remember when I used to ride the bus, I had to sit in the back. I will never will forget that. I used to go to Charlotte to see my daughter and there weren’t any seats, I would have to stand up, and it was somebody here that knowed the people that I worked for and they had seen me and recognized me and they lived in Duck Town and they had left because it got sort of bad and I remember this man got up and gave me the seat and you never seen so many eyes and necks tum around looking. or he would say, "Sit down beside me" Yeah, Martin Luther King made it much better. I: When the schools were integrated here in Murphy, was it an easy transition or was there some trouble? C: Well it wasn’t bad. I think they took it pretty well. I: What happened to the black school that was here? C: They tore it down, it was old, almost where the community center is, it was down there on that piece of property, just a little bit further over. I: So it was torn down after the school were. C: Yeah it was torn down. It wasn’t but three rooms. I: For the high school or all grades? C: It was, you see, to three or four, I believe 3-room and you only went to the eight grade then, and then you had to go to town to go to school. I: What do you mean to town? C: Over to the white school then. They integrated before they tore this school down, I think. Yeah, I believe they did, they integrated before they tore it down. Then you would have to go over there. Finally, all of it they said they wouldn’t pay -- there wasn’t enough over here to have a high school really. There wasn’t enough children. They said the state wouldn’t build it anyway. I: Oh, I see. Is there anything else about your life here in Murphy or Hendersonville or Asheville that I haven't asked you that you would like to share with us in creating our history? Louise Gaston Colbert 28 C: Well, I don’t think so because I was small when I left Hendersonville, the only thing I did get to do this summer, all those years, I got to go back to Hendersonville, just ride through. I: Do you remember any of the people there? C: I didn’t get to talk to anybody because everybody was that day was Father’s Day, we said we was going back and never did, anyway, I remembered down in the section where I lived, I remember the Depot, of course it had changed, but I remember that part of it, I really enjoyed that Sunday going back. I: Going back home. C: My granddaughter took me and we rode down through there. I: I certainly want to thank you.

Louise Gaston Colbert is interviewed by Lorraine Crittenden on August 11, 1986 as a part of the Western North Carolina Tomorrow Black Oral History Project. Born in 1912, Colbert talks about attending school in Murphy through 8th grade, marrying early and doing domestic work. She discusses her husband and sons experience in the Armed Forces and sending two of her children to Allen School in Asheville. She also tells about a personal encounter related to the Civil Rights Movement.

• Creator
  • Colbert, Louise Gaston, 1912-1998
• Contributor
  • Crittenden, Lorraine
• Format
  • Sound recordings
  • Transcripts
  • Interviews
• Type
  • Sound
  • Text
• Date
  • Date interview: 1986-08-11
  • Date: 1910s; 1920s; 1930s; 1940s; 1950s; 1960s; 1970s; 1980s
  • Date digitized: 2018-03-13
• Extent
  • Duration: 1:00:19 (sound recordings)
  • Duration: 28 pages (transcript)
• Subject - Topic
  • African American families
  • African American schools
  • African American veterans
  • African Americans
  • African Americans -- Economic conditions
  • African Americans -- Religion
  • African Americans -- Social conditions
  • African Americans -- Social life and customs
  • Autobiography
  • Civil Rights movements -- United States -- History -- 20th century
  • Colbert, Louise Gaston, 1912-1998
  • Depressions -- 1929
  • North Carolina, Western -- Race relations -- History -- 20th century
  • School integration -- North Carolina, Western
  • World War, 1939-1945
• Location
  • Buncombe County (N.C.)
  • Cherokee County (N.C.)
  • Henderson County (N.C.)
  • North Carolina, Western
• Source institution
  • Western Carolina University
• Source Collection
  • Western North Carolina Tomorrow Black Oral History Project
• Identifier
  • HL_MSS98-03_Crittenden_Colbert_1986-08-11
• Repository
  • Western Carolina University Hunter Library