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Interview with Gerald Schwartz

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  • Name of interviewer: Marybeth Fugate Name of interviewee(s): Dr. Gerald Schwartz Date of interview: October 17th, 2002 Length of interview: 57:22 Location of interview: Buncombe county, NC START OF INTERVIEW Marybeth Fugate: Good morning, it is approximately 9 o’clock on Tuesday morning, October 17th. I’m interviewing Dr. Gerald Schwartz. Dr. Schwartz, do you acknowledge that you are indeed Gerald Schwartz, Gerry Schwartz, and you’re being interviewed? Gerald Schwartz: Last time I checked [inaudible], yes. [Inaudible] Gerry Schwartz. MF: And this interview is being recorded. GS: Yep MF: Thank you. Ok, Dr. Schwartz, I understand that you came to Western Carolina University in January of 1969. Was that your first job as a professor? GS: It was. [Inaudible] after Christmas of 68. [inaudible] 69. Fresh out of graduate school. MF: What motivated you to choose Western Carolina University and remain? GS: Well, it was a choice like so many things in my life {inaudible} It was one of only two job offers that I had. What inspired me to send in a cover letter when I did to WCU in [Cluway, Calway?] Cullowhee Carolina? Was that it just sounded pretty colorful, and a crazy fun place? I had two of those sheets left, with which – I say [inaudible] sheets, [inaudible] sheets accompanied by cover letter, two sets left. MF: Right GS: Two stamped envelopes, into the mail, I sent out a batch of them as [inaudible] of graduate school. And it became [inaudible] doctor of [inaudible]. And I sent one to Slippery Rock, Pennsylvania, [motivated simply by the name]. MF: [laughs] GS: And the same was true of Western. To my everlasting delight, and good fortune, my credentials and department [inaudible] coincided and, professor [Maxwell] Williams, called me long distance on the phone. Cullowhee on out to [Pullman,] Washington. I was in Graduate school, across the continent. I’ve often joked, in public forums, about how it was my good fortune that there was a lot of static on the line, because Max, presumedly had trouble hearing me, and as a consequence, he offered me the job. MF: [laughs] GS: If we’d had a clearer connection, with minimal static, perhaps I [inaudible] this place. What, the other question was what had motivated me [inaudible]? MF: To remain. To remain, the amenities, the area? GS: Yeah, I became tremendously enamored with these mountains [directly I drove into] on that fateful day [inaudible] in late December of 68. My wife and [two, at that point,] very very young children, had been down to scout the place out. And my wife [Molly] had waxed ecstatic about the beauty of the mountains. And, sure enough, I felt precisely the same way. And [inaudible] kept me here ever since. It was also it was an excellent place in which to raise a [new] kid. MF: Was there any one thing or one person that inspired you to become a Professor? GS: Well, I was a, long before I went to graduate school, I was an informal student of history. [In the grand manner] I always loved to read, [inaudible] and did so for my edification but primarily for enjoyment. My wife and I were both [teachers] at the junior high level in New York City and then we made the decision to go on to graduate school. More accurately, she made the decision for me. MF: [Laughs] Oh yeah? GS: [That happens, you know, in a relationship]. MF: [Laughs] GS: Which, by the way, it’s exactly 38 years’ worth of actual marriage as of today. This is the 38th anniversary. MF: Congratulations. GS: Why thank you. Thank you. I was - you know Molly has specific course of graduate studies that she went to pursue. I was sort of floundering, I wasn’t sure. I was amenable to graduate education, but I wasn’t sure exactly what. She pointed out to me, what was glaringly obvious, that I had a degree in history. Why not formalize it? Rather than continue to read, simply read in a disorganized random style based on [inaudible] only one easy attitude and curiosity, institutionalize. [inaudible] MF: To get some practice. Yes. GS: And so that's precisely what happened. MF: I'd like to thank her. [laughs] GS: [laughs] MF: So, you came here in January of 1969 and from what I understand from 1968 to 1974, Western Carolina was going through a lot of dramatic changes; from its turning to a teacher’s college to a university, the power was changing at the higher levels, students were more active about social concerns. What do you remember most about this time? GS: Well my frame of reference were similar to WCU, which a few short years earlier it was WCC: Western Carolina College. My frame of reference was very limited. I had no comparison to make in terms of the administration of the institution, or much of anything else. You alluded to what now? Student activism? MF: Student activism, yeah. GS: Yeah, yeah our arrival pretty much coincided with the beginnings of a heightened consciousness on the part of students about affairs that were external to their own. Personal lives and [external to] the college. Most especially the Vietnam War. MF: Right GS: The counterculture came to Campus, a couple of, three or so years behind most other campuses and I make that observation without any kind of value judgment intended in the slightest, one way or the other. Simply stating a fact. The place was much more isolated [and conventional] than it is now. And it took a while for the so-called youth culture, or counter culture, to become present which was [pervasive] here at Western. And the same was true [inaudible] They were really heating up by [inaudible]. Most students were not activist. . . MF: Right GS: . . . were not involved in this but a goodly percentage of them were. MF: Well generally what terms would you use to describe that generation? Because following WW2 the students who are known as the silent generation. If you can give a term to the generation starting here with Vietnam and what they're going through, to generalize it, and what would you give to the students and the effects from the decade of war [finally]? GS: Well the [inaudible]applies here, we already used it: activist. MF: Activist GS: Yeah, activist and prone to experimental doings than their predecessors ,or indeed those who followed them. For better or worse or both. And that of course is a reference to [inaudible] Vietnam. MF: Right. GS: And the so-called counterculture. The two didn’t necessarily go hand-in-hand, but both were very much in evidence; there was a certain sense of excitement in the air. Especially among the students of about new lifestyles, new [inaudible] ways of not only looking at the World philosophically, but to living with other young people experimenting with drugs [inaudible], all the usual trappings of the associated [inaudible] counter culture of the late 60s spilling over to the early to mid-70s. [Inaudible] MF: How did you adapt your classroom to students? Did you pull in current events? Did you. . . Pop culture icons at the time? [inaudible] Other important. . . GS: Well, I was hired [pretty] early to teach 20th century US history, late 19th to maybe 20th century U.S. history so I didn't have to contrive to bring these things into the classes. They were implicit as far as the content [inaudible] the courses were concerned. So, it wasn't any necessarily really conscious effort on my part; it was what was happening. I was teaching recent U.S. history to a great extent. Every now and again I was assigned the first half of US History [inaudible] much less. [inaudible] [such a class] [inaudible] flowed naturally into the course content. MF: Well, obviously the atmosphere in the 60s was one of action. Prior to your coming to us from [Carolina] University in 1965, five hundred students demonstrated, a thousand students signed petitions asking the Board of Trustees to investigate the feasibility of university status in 1964. There was a student protest here over the red band which was proposed to keep speakers of questionable political orientation from appearing on any North Carolina campus. To you, what does that tell you about the character of Western Carolina student body? Just reflective of the time or…? GS: I suspect somewhat, yeah, I rather suspect so [inaudible]. I can't comment in any meaningful [inaudible] acquiescence of [inaudible] to these events prior to my arrival and prior to the [inaudible] more protest [inaudible]. But what you're suggesting, Marybeth, is that the image of Western Carolina Community students, in particular, as being provincial and passive prior to the big protests of 69, and 70 and beyond, in the larger counterculture [scrutiny] -there’s certain amount of activism going on. MF: Let's go on to the 70s. I like to talk about the 60s. It’s something that people of my generation are obsessed with. We romanticize it. We’ve glamorized it. [laughs] Beyond what it. . .I don't know. So, the years of Carlton. Do you remember those years . . .? GS: Oh yeah. One year, it wasn’t years, plural. It was year, singular. MF: The year of Carlton. GS: Year. Singular. Yeah. What about Mr. Carlton? Chancellor Carlton. MF: Anything you have to say about what was going on. Was there a conflict? GS: Oh yeah, very much so. He was a decent enough fellow. He certainly appeared to be right out of central casting in the sense that - Hollywood central casting, in the sense that he looked very much like a chancellor. He had the aura in the state that the chancellor [inaudible] you also could have cast as a U.S. Senate or Supreme Court Justice or the like. Was a decent enough type I suspect [Bardem], but he simply was at odds with, that's an understatement, a severe understatement, with faculty in particular, almost from the moment of his arrival. He was very confrontational, and he wasn't a very subtle fellow. He was bent upon [inaudible], was bent upon, as I recollect, implementing changes which would have had a profound effect upon faculty, especially the veteran, tenured Faculty. Very early on, within the early weeks after his arrival, he announced in a series of meetings to his Department [including his department] his intention of doing away with tenure and he went well beyond that. That was the single thing, that was most dramatic. Again, no subtlety to it, no euphemistic smokescreens. He stood up there in a hostile posture, perhaps he wasn't aware it, of his very physical posture, and openly announced - pretty much, this is a [hyperbole], but he pretty much openly announced his [war] to the traditional ways in which things were done [inaudible] campuses [inaudible]. Most specifically with the senior faculty here at Western, and very predictably it was a terrific uproar and [inaudible]. And he was pretty much run out of town on a rail at the end of the year. MF: Can you explain to me what tenure means to you? GS: Well tenure of course means secured -all right and secured. It's one of the advantages of academic life. More specifically professional life in higher education. Ralph Waldo Emerson wrote many a wonderful essay in his day [inaudible] entitled “Compensation”. The level of compensation for people who [inaudible], more specifically a doctoral degree, who opt for careers in academia, is in a purely financial sense, not very high at all. Not very high at all. But let me do a little quick calculation … twelve, sixteen… Typically such folks put in what, oh twenty-one years of preparation, give or take a year or so. Twenty-one, twenty-two. That's a form of preparation of intense study and constant study, and the pay is pathetic by the standards of anyone I know who has professional credentials and a high level of capability [inaudible]. But there are many many advantages to being a college faculty and one of these several advantages is this business of tenure and the sense of security and stability and comfort in one's profession that’s [afforded by that.] MF: So, what he was trying to accomplish by undiplomatically taking a hostile stance against the faculty, we can only wonder. What do you propose he was trying to do, what sort of statement…? GS: The best I can say to Jack Carlton is that it's my assumption that he was, by his own [rights], something of an idealist. It's conceivable he was motivated entirely by a desire to further his own, his own stature and, also to be receptive to [inaudible]. But I prefer to think that he had some ideas which he perceived as admirable. Admirable ideals and he was going to push on to achieve them, and once again came into conflict with the interests of large numbers of faculty people. It was by no, it was by no means a universal, adverse response to Jack Carlton. He had a few supporters and several people who were unhappy with some of his proposals and policies but were reluctant to take a stand. What a very very large number of people did indeed take an active stand in opposition to what he stood for. MF: Benjamin Franklin says that people fear being out of style more than they fear Hell. Has. . . in what ways has Western Carolina ever struggled with the problem of going in a certain direction of what is stylish as opposed to what is more budget wise, for example? GS: Well. I'm not too sure what you mean by [style]. [Inaudible] In the context of which you use it. MF: In the context that the current administration, the current administration is trying to increase enrollment. GS: Uh-huh. MF: Some feel that this will be great for the local economy. GS: Mhm. MF: Others feel that it will harm the charm, the sense of small community Western has. Others feel that this area, just geographically, does not have the capacity to handle this sort of growth. Do you feel that the current administration is trying to be stylish, to catch up to the other universities going in that direction, or do you think that by doing this, to stay with the program, to stay with it, to expand, is going to hurt the character of Western? Perhaps that's what I mean by being stylish. GS: Yeah. Okay well, you've posed several, let me try to- MF: Several things. That’s loaded. GS: It is kind of loaded, but let me try to explain, try to tackle this whole business. I'm coming up on 34 years of affiliation with the history [track] of WCU. I have very warm and positive feelings toward the university in that it's provided me with a good life. Me and my beloved family. I certainly regard myself as being loyal to the institution. I'm not a naysayer, that is to say, a professional put-down artist, not in the slightest. But I do have to tell you. . . First of all, since way back there in late 60s, there has been an ongoing attempt by Chancellors, other administrators, and external elements in the state system, and the like, to boost enrollment. This is anything but a new consideration. Various and sundry techniques and experiments have been employed in an effort of doing that. Some of these are actually, rather jumbled in my consciousness [inaudible]. But you have honed in, specifically, on things in recent years. My understanding, and very widespread, perhaps even universal understanding, is that Chancellor Bardo – who is a [fine] fellow, an admirable man and very competent one [inaudible] - is under a mandate to boost enrollment. And my perception, based on empirical observation, based on a whole lot of stuff, I can't substantiate a specific data, much less statistics, but my perception is that this remains a struggle and the current administration has opted to pursue policies which will make Cullowhee and Western Carolina University [community] more palatable to larger and larger numbers of people, and families, and support to [extend] their educations. And this attempt is being made by modernizing Western and turning it into another Every-town, Every-place, USA and it's a self-destructive [attempt] in my estimation, because we . . . The very nature, the organic nature of Western North Carolina, and more specifically of Jackson County, and more specifically still, Cullowhee Valley and this campus is such that it will never really be, and I pray God that I’m right about this, Everywhere, USA, replete with malls and hamburger heaven, strips and neon lights and all of the trappings of [contemporary culture]. In many respects, in many respects, Cullowhee and WCU don’t have a whole hell of a lot going [for them]. What they do have, and have had, since my arrival here [inaudible] decades of generations prior to that, is a combination of scenic beauty, the charm of rustic life, of unique and singular and appealing subculture here in the mountains. These are the kinds of things that Western has in its favor. And to, in any way, disrupt and detract from it is, let me say again, counter-productive. If I use the term self-destructive [inaudible] wrong, because if kids come here motivated by an appreciation for rural life, and for beautiful scenery, and for opportunities for the outdoor activities and sports, and the like, this is great, just absolutely great, just great. We've got it in abundance. We’ve got it in abundance. Hiking the Appalachian Trail and countless other trails and enjoying the fall color season and doing a bit of trout fishing and the like, this is the place to be. But students who are more oriented toward malls and multiplex theaters, and a wide choice of venues for nightlife, are going to find this a very limited and very unsatisfactory environment and be unhappy here. And be reluctant to enroll, and if they do enroll, many of them are going to flee out soon as they possibly can leave. [End Tape One – Side A] [Tape One – Side B] MF: So, as far as things to do on campus Greek life is definitely a big one. It's a large part of many students’ lives here. It has changed over time with the adding and removing of different sororities and fraternities. The regulations upon them have changed. Do you think Greek life has improved or negatively impacted student life on campus? Or both? GS: I've never given it much thought. I wasn’t with the fraternity myself. My wife, on the other hand, was a sorority girl to this very day and maintains her contacts in Kappa Kappa, attends reunions and the like, and has wonderful memories of sorority life [inaudible] Western University Campus. I've never paid that much mind to which [of] these. I'm very neutral about fraternities and sororities. I’m saying that, again, I’m neutral. I don't really have much of a response. I could certainly see how fraternities would be appealing though to young people here where entertainment options are so limited. These are these many other campuses. So, to abandon fraternities, which a number of schools did back in the 60s and 70s, to do away with that system I think would be a bad mistake. [Inaudible] find it very appealing - Fraternity and Sorority Life gratified. There has sporadically been problems with excessive drinking and the like. But I don't know that that's necessarily attributable to fraternities per se. I remember as an undergraduate, lots of young people, who had no great affiliation whatsoever and never even [contemplated it] [inaudible] membership, would be roaring drunk much at a time. So, it's a, you know what. . . MF: [Inaudible] Greeks. GS: Hm? MF: It's the college experience. GS: It's the college experience and yeah. Yeah, I'm afraid so, I'm afraid it comes with the territory of being. . . of being young, being perhaps post - late adolescent - post adolescent. I think it’s a sad commentary, wish it weren’t this way, but I'm afraid that the propensity for access is built into many young lives [with it] their fraternities or not. And this, it's incumbent upon institutions such as Western to attempt to curb those accesses. It seems to me that that's a natural part of the function of a proper institution [inaudible]. I’ve long bewailed the complete hundred-and-eighty degree turning away from the concept of global [correctness]. MF: I would assume that you would apply this to coaches as well. Recently a violent crime was committed by a student, an athlete, they received a lot of the media attention. Do you feel that athletes should represent Western Carolina on and off campus and should the coaches be responsible for the player's actions? GS: That's a toughie. MF: It is. GS: Yeah, yeah. MF: It is. And something that- GS: By definition every student athlete [inaudible] represents, along with representing his or her family and the community and all sorts of other entities, represents this group [inaudible] enrolled. And that is rather magnified in the case of athletes. To what extent should coaches be responsible for the off-field, off-court activities of their players? Certainly, coaches should try to set an appropriate example and we should maintain some kind of parameters, behavior, as a criteria to play a varsity sport. At the same time there are limits. This isn't a police state and it's absolutely impossible for any coach, or staff of coaches, to completely control the lives and activities of their players. It just doesn't make sense. It's inconceivable that such thing could be done. Perhaps to some degree it could be done in military academies and the like, but I don’t think it’s the responsibility of coaches. It extends, it may, it may extend theoretically in the Platonic ideal of the coach-player relationship, but I don't think [inaudible] coaches being fully responsible for the activities of their players, away from the playing field, away from campus, is at all viable. I do have to interject one other comment. MF: Mhm? GS: There are a lot of, and I'm a great sports fan - sports has always been a vital part of my life and I hope always will be - But I feel compelled to say something, which I’ll have to be very tactful about that but it's going to have to be said. The very same characteristics that sometimes make for a fiercely competitive and skilled young athlete sometimes compel behaviors which you can [inaudible] away from athletic competition. It's a paradox, but there it is. MF: That's why discipline is so important and such a touchy subject, when it comes to- GS: It's so very. . . it’s tough to enforce. MF: It is. It is, and especially being a coach at a 1A college who only time I can ever - that I ever know of ranking in the top 10 is in 1960. . . in 1969! Western Carolina’s football team was ranked sixth. GS: Oh yeah! Oh yeah… MF: [Inaudible] GS: My late and revered friend, the great Bob Waters. One of the finest fellows to ever come down the [pipe] in any profession was Bob who's an excellent coach. That was the most exciting season. Back [inaudible] stadium. [Inaudible – data corruption] MF: [Inaudible – data corruption] …question. I’m going to get on to something [lighter], I promise. There was a bond passed that public referendum in 2000. It presented Western Carolina with a considerable amount of money to improve the buildings. Improvements were for previously approved buildings prior to the vote. How do you feel about this considering the historical integrity of the buildings? McKee for instance? GS: Well… improvements is, of course, a value laden word and you know we could debate ad infinitum with some of the intricacies of the funding. But, but yeah, you asked about the integrity of buildings. As a very much a traditionalist I tend to favor the perpetuation of the integrity of buildings especially those which aren’t eyesores, and which aren't in any way really intrusive in your environment. But there are very real improvements needed in many of the buildings in the region. We've got the funds to take action on that front. Great. I'm all for it. How well I remember the days when the first floor of McKee, the actual floor itself, was severely buckled, it was a, if not a death trap, then at least a [serious accident] waiting to happen, were much in evidence before [monies were] available to make the necessary repairs. Antiquated buildings could be, talk about loaded words, antiquated. You know, they can be mighty charming and especially in the college environment, but they have to be updated and maintained. So, I [inaudible – data corruption.] MF: Okay. I'm going to go in a different direction. One more question about university life and events that have occurred on campus. Who is the most influential visitor to you, in your opinion, to come to Western Carolina? GS: Visitor? Do you mean a visiting lecturer? MF: Lecturer, entertainer? [inaudible] William Jennings has been here. GS: Oh, yeah yeah. MF: Senator Bob Dole spoke. Those are ones that I can… GS: Oh yeah. I'm hard pressed to single out in any given individual. My personal preferences which [inaudible] matter… MF: That’s fine. [laughs] GS: But I do want to. Yeah, that’s right. That is what you’re asking. MF: Your opinion. GS: I-I just I don't know. I do want to say this, though, in response to your question. Without even attempting to search my memory bank for a specific individual, the quality of the entertainment and the like, at Western has diminished vastly and incredibly during my long tenure here. This, no doubt, is a function of, largely, maybe not entirely, largely of funding realities. It may also reflect a stronger desire in recent years to cater to the perceived preferences of young students. I think it’s a combination in a sense, but the quality of the entertainment has vastly diminished. In my early years here. I recollect it to, and my memory may be playing tricks on me but I don’t think so, that within, you know, a given academic year typically some combination of the Atlanta Symphony, the Charlotte Symphony, the North Carolina Symphony, maybe two out of the three, would be on campus to perform concerts of a very high quality. We've had all sorts of wonderful groups dating back and the [Mj2] and the Jazz -Preservation Hall Jazz Band out of New Orleans. Speakers who packed the venues in which they spoke not because students were there under duress necessarily but because they really wanted to hear them. Tom Wolfe… MF: The author? GS: The author. Senator Sam [Irving] right on the heels of his heading up the Watergate investigations of Richard Nixon. Many many others. A number of prominent historians among them Arthur Schlesinger Junior. First rate theatrical productions: Shakespeare, and of course pop entertainment, one small step removed from Broadway. These kinds of things were readily available to students in the yesterdays and with rare, rare exceptions they just aren’t anymore. Which is a source of considerable sadness and consternation to many old timers who recall the good old days. I'm often accused of doing that especially by my wife, MF: [laughs] GS: …of indulging in what she calls the [ruby soup] convention. “Those were the days.” MF: [Laughs] GS: [inaudible] where are the [stones] of yesteryear? Looking back and romanticizing the past. Now I'm fully cognizant of that propensity, but in this particular case it isn't, it isn't predicated upon an air of fantasy. It's true. MF: Right. GS: The quality of entertainment [inaudible] life in terms of exposing young people to high grade programs. Whether you're talking [inaudible] about classical music or pop music or jazz or any other genre - opera or theatrical productions - we've had some good ones: local. The theatre department here at Western has done some wonderful plays over the years. MF: [inaudible] GS: I’m talking about stuff brought in from outside. Speakers, dance, ballet, you name it. The whole [shooting match] has gone downhill. It has really been the case this year. More and more so. Sorry about that. MF: I’m sorry too. I’m going to talk now about some personal things about your job and how you reflect upon it. Integrity, perseverance, and courage I think help define the qualities of an effective professor. Which of these do you feel is most important? GS: You mentioned integrity, perseverance. These are virtues, right? These are virtues, rules, [inaudible] MF: [inaudible] Yes. And patience as well. GS: Did you say patience? MF: I did. Patience is a virtue. GS: Patience is a virtue MF: And so’s courage. GS: Courage. MF: Courage. Integrity. GS: You know, Mary Beth, to be in any way dismissive of these characteristics would be like attacking, once again to use an ancient cliché, apple pie and motherhood. These are all wonderful wonderful characteristics. Am I correct in assuming that what you are trying to get at here is the kinds of - is my view of the kinds of qualities which makes for a good professor? MF: Yes. GS: Is that your… MF: Yes, Sir. GS: Yes, it's a good question. MF: [Inaudible] characteristics. GS: Yeah, yeah. Everything you've mentioned is of course important. But I think to be an effective educator one must have, first of all, a tremendous knowledge of one's discipline. About one’s discipline. Secondly, the professor in question has to be most enthusiastic about that discipline. There's nothing drearier than a professor schlepping into a classroom with his head down low, a sour look on his face, making it blatantly obvious to one and all that he really doesn't want to be there. [Tremendous experience for all concerned]. So you have to have, first and foremost, knowledge, and plenty of it, about the subject which you presume to profess, presume to teach. OK? Secondly you have to have enthusiasm and certainly tie in with enthusiasm you have to somehow have the ability to impart a certain degree of enthusiasm and interest in your students. Beyond that, coupled with the other virtues, reliability and perseverance and integrity and so on. [inaudible] MF: Well how would you differentiate between the terms “being cultured” with ‘being educated’? GS: Being educated in the context of our discussion, and not in the broad sense of the term but the professionally, is, I think, pretty much self-explanatory. Right? Being cultured, as I define it, is something else. It's having a broad range of interests removed from one's professional obligations and professional life. And among college faculty, as among people of [not only] other professions, but all other occupations. You’re going to find [terrific] range of either appreciation for things cultural or a lack thereof. There are lots and lots of faculty folk, in all disciplines, who are broadly cultured, who have an appreciation of not only of pop culture, of sports and pop entertainment and the like, but the more classic sense: have an appreciation of good music, theatre, literature, not the books that they read - monographs that they read while they’re preparing their selves professionally - but simply books that are of interest to them. People enjoy foreign travel and cultivated some degree of skill in language, in languages, other than your own and the like. You'll find plenty of folks like that in academia probably a higher percentage than in most other professional, occupational [inaudible]. But there are also plenty of people, if not entirely devoid of culture, is sorely lacking. Who, again a paradox, who are sometimes are very very skilled and competent in their immediate fields of expertise. That's the nature of the market higher education predicated upon the old German model is an intense study of a limited subject area. Okay? And you will find [inaudible] types of folks, and a lot of folks who fall somewhere in between, between the highly cultured and people with a deep appreciation for nonprofessionally related cultural [inaudible] and those who are almost devoid of these things. There's no shortage of idiots and [monotypes] in academia, not even here [at our beloved WCU]. MF: [Thank you] Dr. Schwartz. Is there any one… Is there a [Henry L] Mencken [quote] that you would like to interject at this time? Anything you would like to say? GS: You’ve noticed I’m wearing a Mencken T-shirt. MF: I’ve noticed that. I’ve noticed the video. Actually, I checked out a book from the library on Mencken when I took your class, the book, which I ended up buying from the university library. GS: What was it, anthologies? MF: Yes. Would you like to end with anything from Mencken? GS: Oh gosh. [laughs] MF: [Laughs] I couldn’t resist asking [inaudible] GS: I don't know where to go with this. MF: I have a whole ‘nother tape, it’s okay. GS: I am a Mencken buff, a Mencken fanatic. And have been since my middle teens, which is to say for a long long time, and [inaudible]is almost fixated on Mencken's life and career and I derive tremendous pleasure from reading his works. My gosh, as I move toward the home stretch. I just had my 70th birthday a couple, three months or so ago, back in July -an ongoing feast, festival, a three-week birthday celebration. MF: [laughs] My birthday’s in July, [call me]. GS: I’ve never had so much fun in my life. But as I move to the homestretch of life I'm reminded of, my goodness, his wish to have carved his tombstone the words :”If, after I depart this vale of tears, you’ll remember me and have thought to please my ghost, forgive some sinner and wink your eye at some homely girl.” How’s that… MF: [laughs] Classic. GS: How’s that for an ending? MF: Thank you. GS: By the way, there was no tombstone for Henry Mencken. MF: What happened? [inaudible] GS: he just opted not to go that route. He just [claps hands], yeah. MF: Oh. Oh, well that is still left for someone to take and use on theirs. GS: Yeah! You’re right. MF: it's an epitaph, it’s not copyrighted in stone. GS: [Laughs] MF: Thank you, Dr. Schwartz. GS: Thank you, Marybeth. [End Tape One – Side B]
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