• Format
  • Transcripts
  • Interviews
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  • Text
• Extent
  • Duration: 13 pages (transcript)
• Source institution
  • Western Carolina University
• Identifier
  • HL_MSS98-03_Smith_Kelly_1987-06-05_transcript

Kelly 1 WESTERN NORTH CAROLINA TOMORROW BLACK ORAL HISTORY PROJECT Interviewee: Mary Jane Kelly Interviewer: Edward Clark Smith Date: June 5, 1987 County: Buncombe Duration: 54:45 Note: This transcript has been edited from the original audio. It is assumed that Mary Jane Kelly did the editing. Mary Jane Kelly: Here is my profile, Mary Jane Kelly. My paternal grandparents lived in Carlisle, South Carolina, a small town in Union County. They were Gilliam and Mary Jane Thomas Kelly. They were the parents of nine children, the oldest being Aaron Kelly, the husband of Florence Prysock Kelly and he was my father. The other children were Corrie Anne, Walker, Arenus, Arribelle, William, Munch, Manuville, Gilliam and Phil. Gilliam was a steward in the Jeter Chapel A.M.E. Church. After the death of his first wife, Gilliam married Florence Sims Davis, and from this union there was a son, James P. Kelly. Gilliam died in 1942 and his second wife died in 1972. Gilliam is buried in Carlisle, South Carolina, Jeter Chapel Cemetery. My maternal grandfather, Charlie Prysock, Sr., was born near Union, South Carolina. He was an ordained Baptist Minister and served at Mt. Rowell Baptist Church, both near Union, South Carolina. Charlie's first wife was Drucilla Fair and from this union there were ten children, namely Lizzie, Charlie, Jr., Major, Della, Florence, Ella and Katie were twins, Benny, Mary and David. Florence being the mother of Mary Jane Kelly (interviewee) After the death of Drucilla, Charlie married Sina H. Thomas. From this union, there was one child, Bessie. Charlie Prysock, Sr., died in 1928 and Sina Prysock died in 1934. Both are interred in the cemetery at Mount Rowell, Union, South Carolina. My paternal and maternal grandparents were farmers that owned their own land. Both were of some Indian ancestry. Aaron Kelly, my father, married Florence Prysock and from this marriage there was one child, Mary Jane Kelly. I was born in Carlisle, South Carolina. When I was four years old the family moved to Asheville, North Carolina. My mother, Florence, united herself to the Nazareth First Baptist Church shortly after coming to Asheville. At the age of 12 I became a member of Nazareth and was baptized. Even before I became a member, I took part in church activities. During my high school days, I sang in the choir and was assistant pianist for the Sunday School. During my college days at A&T University and teaching away from home, I would involve myself in church activities during the summer. Aaron Kelly, passed away in 1945; after the death of Aaron Kelly my mother Florence Kelly later married Benny Mason. Florence Prysock Kelly Mason died in 1953. She is interred in Violet Hill Cemetery in Asheville. When I graduated from Stephens Lee High School in Asheville, North Carolina in 1929, I matriculated at A & T State University which was then A & T College. During my four years, there I was pianist for the A & T Sunday School for two years and a member of the college choir for one year. I Kelly 2 received the Bachelor of Science degree in 1933 with three majors, English, French, and History. I was also a member of the Honorary Society on the campus, the Gamma Tau. This society included men and women. After teaching a number of years I received a Master of Arts degree in English from Howard University in Washington, D.C. I also attended summer school at Atlanta University in Atlanta, Georgia, and at Western Carolina University at Cullowhee, North Carolina. Recalling my years of teaching, I said through the late president F. B. Bluford, I received my first assignment at the Winchester Avenue High School at Monroe, North Carolina. I taught English and commercial geography there for two years, and I taught one year at Happy Plains School at Taylorsville, North Carolina. In 1936 through the late Dr. T.B. Jones, who was Registrar at A & T at that time, I acquired a position in Pitt County teaching English and French for eight years at Pitt county Training School in Grimesland, North Carolina and ten years at South Ayden High in Ayden, North Carolina making a total of 18 years in Pitt county. While I was in Pitt County I acted as teacher librarian at both schools, and I also worked with music at every school where I had taught. During my stay in Pitt County, I was married. The marriage lasted six years and after the divorce I resumed my maiden name. In 1954 the late Dr. Frank Toliver who was principal of Stephens-Lee High School in Asheville recommended me to the principal, Mr. A.D. Rutherford, at Morningside High School at Statesville, North Carolina. I taught English, French, and History for four years at Morningside High School, and I was also organist for the Scott United Methodist Church in Statesville. In 1958 the late attorney, Ruben Daily of Asheville, told me that a history teacher was needed at Allen High School, a private finishing school for girls. I applied for the position and was accepted. I taught History and English at Allen until it closed in 1974. In January 1972 during the mini-semester at Allen, I, along with a coworker who was Greek, accompanied 13 students to Greece. There we spent three weeks visiting the ancient ruins of that country. In 1978 during the Allen High School reunion, I received an award of merit for 16 years of educational service at Allen High School. December 7, 1983, I was given an award for educational excellence presented by the Central Asheville Optimist Club. In addition to teaching duties, I was involved with drama and student government. At the closing of Allen, I did not try to get another permanent teaching position. I did substitute teaching for six years at Reynolds High School, one of the largest schools in Buncombe County, and at Reynolds Middle School. I sought to broaden my horizon through more traveling. Besides visiting Mexico and Canada and other various states in the Continental U.S.A., I have visited Hawaii, seven countries in western Europe, Greece and a number of islands in the West Indies, and in 1976 I visited two countries in West Africa, Nigeria and Liberia. I am now completely retired from the classroom. I was organist for a while at Nazareth First Baptist Church. Now along with having several music students, I am organist for the Senior Choir at St. James A.M.E. Church. Both churches are in Asheville. A few years ago, I gave a five-minute talk every Saturday morning on Black history over Station WFGW from Black Mountain. The program was called Kutano, a Swaheli word meaning "let us come together." I am an active member in the Asheville Alumni Chapter of the A & T State University. I am treasurer for the Progressive Club of the Nazareth First Baptist Church, and I am also an active member in the Asheville YWCA Booster Club and the Asheville Buncombe Retired Teachers Association. In closing I say A & T has meant much to many people. I also say that the training that I received at A & T, the course in library science from Atlanta University, and the instruction I received from Howard University have meant much to me not only during my years of teaching but even during my retirement. My master's thesis, The Kelly 3 Homeland of Thomas Wolfe, was the first discourse from a local black to be on file in the Pack Memorial Library in the North Carolina section. It is a research on the state of North Carolina, Buncombe County, and Asheville, along with the life and the works of Thomas Wolfe. Edward Clark Smith: You were at Western in 1966? K: Yes, in the summer. I: Thinking back, can you recall why your parents came to Asheville? K: They came to work. They were farmers. They worked on the farm there in South Carolina. My mother wanted to put me in a better school. You see they had just country schools out there for three months during the year. I: Well, you never really went to school down there? K: No. I was just four years old. I: Where is it you went to school? K: To Catholic Hill and later Stephens-Lee School. I: That's where you started out? K: Yes, I started at Catholic Hill School and then of course Catholic Hill burned down and Stephens-Lee School was built. It was what one calls a union school and a union school was from the first grade on through high school. There was a two-teacher school at Mountain Street at the time, and Hill Street School was in session. Dr. Michael's grandfather was principal. Have you interviewed Dr. Michael? I: I haven't gotten to him yet, but I'm going to. K: See, his grandfather was principal at that school for years. Stephens Lee and Catholic Hill were the only schools that I knew. I: So you started out at Catholic Hill. How far did you go before it burned down? K: First grade. I: What was going to school like for you all in that era? Did you have the things that you needed? K: I was so young then and see we went to school half a day at that time. They had what they call the A's and the B's. First day you had to go to the first A and then if you made it you would Kelly 4 go through the first B and then second A and second B. And see back in that time children went to school half days, not like today. You went to school from 9:00 until 12:00 and get out and another group would come in. The first A would go from 9:00 until 12:00 and the first B probably from 1:00 until 4:00 in the afternoon. I: Why did they do that? K: I don't know, on account of the teachers. You may be able to ask Mrs. Herron because she was teaching at that time. You may be able to ask her why. I think she was teaching over here at Hill Street. She was a Ms. Saunders then so I understand. Now all the teachers I know that can tell you something about that are dead. Ms. Lee was my last teacher to die. And so now she taught me and I don't know, but Vivian Cooper may be able to tell you something about that too cause she taught school here for years. I: I'll be seeing Ms. Cooper tomorrow and I'm going to be sure to ask her what that was. Now what was it like growing up for you in Asheville. What was Asheville like for a person that was 16 or 17 years old? I notice you said that you were involved in Nazarus early. What was Asheville like? How did you all entertain yourselves? K: We entertained ourselves . . . see when I was a youngster mostly we didn't have Sunday movies. We had victrola record players you know, we called them victrolas back in that time, and just about every parent around you had an upright piano and we entertained ourselves mostly be playing the piano, picking up and going to the theater, Plaza Theater, and at that time they had what you call Vaudeville shows at the Majestic, the Majestic later became the Paramount Theater. They had vaudeville shows there, singing and dancing and so forth like that and you may laugh when you hear this, the only church at that time with a lot of shouting and clapping hands was the Cappadocia Church down here on Max Street. And people would entertain ... now, Leona Owens could tell you something about that. See I lived in this neighborhood and I grew up in part of that church there and all the churches around and if you notice just about all the black churches are back over in this section. I: They sure are. K: See there's Big Zion ... I: They're all right here, Nazarus, Mount Zion ... K: St. James, St. Mathias. I: Berry Temple are all on this side. K: Just about all of them on this side of town. See this was really a black section. I: Hill Street is the only church that's far away. Kelly 5 K: And I think Brown Temple was over in this section for a while until they bought down there on the Blanton Street. I: We had moved off of Hill Street. Urban renewal had come through before they even went down . . . K: I think way back in the twenties I think when Berry Temple first organized they held a meeting in this old theater, Mount Zion Theater, you see after Mount Zion built this other church see they held the meeting there for a while until they bought somewhere themselves. You see practically all of the black churches were back over in this section. I: So Cappadocia is an old church, isn't it? K: Yes, Cappadocia is old. It was just plain, they bricked it later, it was just a plain weatherboard church at one time and they bricked it later. As I said, when I was growing up the way we would entertain ourselves mostly. Just about every child around here took music from Ms. Bowman, Audry Bowman's mother, and Ms. R.E. Jones. I: I took music from Ms. Jones. She used to live over by David Miller, way back up in there. K: Oh that was Ms. Bell Jones but this was Ms. R. E. Jones. She lived out on Crescent Street. She was the wife of one of the former ministers at St. Mathias and she left here years ago and she had a number of children. But you took music from Ms. Bell Jones, who taught music at Allen. We would entertain ourselves with playing music with a latest you would hear at dances and in the shows and so forth like that and we would buy at that time you could buy a piece of sheet music for 35 cents and just about all the five- and ten-cent stores around here sold music (sheet music). I remember the Charles Store down there on Patton Avenue. I have bought a lot of music from Charles Store. And when I was a teenager see I was taking music at the time and I would go in there and find out whether anybody would have the music, I would find out what key the music was played in and I would know the tune cause we was humming the tune and so forth and pick it out by ear. And see that's the way I had to dance, of course the Charleston and other dance steps were in and that's the way most of us youngsters around here entertained ourselves. I: What did your mom and dad do to earn a living? K: My mother worked, she did various kinds of work, she took in washing for a while and she was night maid at the George Vanderbilt Hotel and then she worked for the Pullman Company. Dad, before he went into construction work, worked on the railroads as a coal laborer. My mother worked for the Pullman Company for a while. During the heart of the depression, they had to cut hands, and I was in school at the time, but she worked and put me through school. I didn't work at all. My main objective when I came out of school was to get a job. That was 1933, the heart of the depression, and my mother did various jobs to make ends meet. Kelly 6 I: I talked to a lot of people and one I talked to, Mr. Booker Sherill yesterday, and he said black people were depressed before the depression. How did the depression affect your family? K: During the depression years, my father was out of work, and my mother worked at the railroad for a while until they cut hands down there, then she did various other kind of jobs like day work because I was in school at the time, and she had to pay my tuition and board. I finished in 1933. I did not work my way through college. My mother paid for everything. I: When did you go to A & T? K: I went to A & T in 1929. That's when I finished high school and my mother was working at the railroad for the Pullman service. They were paying well at that time according to the standards of that time. She worked there until 1931 or 32 when they cut hands. I think it was in 1931 when they cut hands. The depression got so tough, they cut hands; after that, my mother worked at one of the bank buildings for a while, running the elevator. My father was out of work, but later on he got work as a construction worker, but that was in the heart of the depression. I: What was A & T like when you got there? I went to North Carolina Central in Durham, but A & T is a larger one. K: It wasn't as large as it is now. They just had a few girls there and most of them were boys. There were many old buildings there and some had been recently built. A & T was not as tough as I thought it was going to be because I actually thought the college work was going to be hard. I didn't apply myself as I could have, in fact I finished as an honorary student, but if I had applied myself much more, I would have been tops. The subjects were not as hard as I thought they would be. I had gone over some of the same work in high school that I had at A & T, especially French. I: How did you choose a triple major? K: When I went to A & T College, now A & T state University, I didn't have in mind exactly what I wanted to do; I had had two years of French in high school, and two of Latin. My teachers were Mrs. Smith and Mrs. Quarles. I think Mrs. Quarles instilled it in my mind. She's a Mrs. Hamme now, I understand she's blind and in a nursing home. But those were two strong teachers. They were very good teachers and both of them taught foreign languages including French and Latin. Mrs. Helen c. Smith taught your mother also, I know, and they gave us a pretty good foundation. When I went to A & T, I liked English. Mrs. A. P. Martin, a very good teacher, taught me English at Stephens-Lee. I also had some sorry English teachers too. A lot of work I didn't understand until I went to college. I: Were they on the quarter or semester system? Kelly 7 K: Quarter. You had to pay $22.50 a month I believe but it was on the quarter system. It's on the semester system now, but A & T was on the quarter system when I went there, and tuition and board were $22.50 a month. But every quarter if one was taking typing or anything, one had to pay extra but I didn't take typing. I think if one took science and typing, one had to pay extra. I'm not so sure about science but I know for typing one had to pay extra. I started to take typing, but I decided to take the money and use that for spending change. I wish a lot of times now that I had taken typing, but I took the money that my mother sent me for typing for spending change. I: When school was out, did you come home? K: I came home during the summer except the summer of 1932. I stayed down there and went to summer school along with waiting tables at A & T in 1932. I: What did you do? K: I didn't do anything during the other summers because I could hardly find work, but after I finished A & T, they were taking on people to serve one meal at the S & W Cafeteria. Now I worked during the summer after I finished A & T, but during the summer when I was at A & T, one could hardly find any work. It was during the depression. Several of us tried to find work but no work was available and so I just stayed at home summers of 1930-31 until after I finished college. The S & W Cafeteria was hiring people to work one meal, and so I got a job up there during the summer of 1933 and 34 until I got a job as a teacher that first year, 1933. I: Teaching jobs, were they hard to come by for black people, because I know the schools were segregated? K: Playing the piano is what helped me to get my job. It was hard to get people who could play music. Many schools wanted somebody to play music just like the churches want musicians now. I: They were like wanting dual ... somebody that could do more than one thing? K: Absolutely. That's the way I was hired. If you read from that, I did a little bit of everything, even actually wrote the high school yearly reports for some of the principals. Some principals didn't even know how to make out a high school report, and I have had to do it. For the elementary and regular teachers reports, I have known teachers to do that. I remember when I first went to Grimesland, North Carolina, I had to make out the high school yearly report, and fifth grade teacher had to make out the principal's report for the whole school. The principal would be sitting around over a stump reading a paper. He was also the teacher of agriculture. He had to fill in two places, principal and agriculture teacher, and he had me doing one report and other teacher doing the other report. Now that's the truth. Kelly 8 I: Was there any comparison between the black schools and white schools compared to what they had? K: When I first started teaching, the black teachers did not earn as much as the white teachers. The matter was carried to court, I don't know whether NAACP was in on it, but I know the schools were segregated, and they had a North Carolina Teachers Association for whites and a North Carolina Teachers Association for blacks. I think we went to court, and we fought for equal salary. Finally, in the last of the 1930's, I don't know whether it was 1938, ‘39 or ‘40, that they finally raised the black teachers' salary to the same standard as the white teachers. I remember when I went down east, it was in September, 1936. Teachers Retirement started in 1941. I know when I came home Ms. Teachers' Social Security started in 1955 for public schools. Peggy Murray was staying with us, she taught at Black Mountain. I remember telling her that my superintendent gave a talk, and said that the black schools and black teachers' standard of living was not as high as the white teachers'; therefore, they were not getting as much pay as the white teachers. I: He said that? K: He certainly did say it, and I was telling Peggy Murray about it. She said ''What does he mean by saying that"? I can't go into a store and buy a piece of goods and not have to pay as much for that piece of goods as a white teacher. I would have to pay the same price for food and clothing as the white teacher. I: What did you first earn? K: When I first started teaching, I earned $54.00 a month. That was in the heart of the depression. I've forgotten how much Mr. Haith said he earned. They raised the salary in 1936 to $85.00 a month. In 1933 when I first started, I got $54.00 a month and that was a lot of money back in that time because you could go uptown and get a can of salmon for 15 cents. One could get a large can of salmon for 15 cents during the heart of the depression. Yes, $54.00 was a lot of money back in the heart of the depression. I: Well, how did you get around, to get from school, when you were traveling, I mean you did a lot of traveling as a young person? K: We didn't have any cars or anything, just a few blacks had cars back in that time. When we wanted to go anywhere, we would just get on a bus or train and go. When I was working in the Grimesland, North Carolina; Greenville, North Carolina was the county seat. When we got our checks, if we didn't catch the principal with a car or anything, we got on the bus or the train and went on over to Greenville or Washington, North Carolina, where we wanted to go to trade. We got on the bus because I have been on the bus plenty of times, and that bus would be crowded; we were segregated. I: They were segregated on the bus? Kelly 9 K: Yes, I should say. The blacks had to sit in the back of the bus no matter how crowded it was. I: You paid the same thing, right? K: Oh, surely, we paid the same thing and I have been on that bus from Greenville going back to Grimesland. I have forgotten how many miles from Greenville. I remember seeing a woman with a big package leaning on a seat where a white woman was sitting. The bus driver told her not to lean against that seat. I was right there in the bus. He said ''Don't lean against that seat." She tried her very best to stand up, and she had a big box, and the bus was crowded. I know something about segregation. The black people from the eastern part of North Carolina is where the large farms were, the plantations. You can go there now and see large plantations and a little graveyard here and there. People were buried on the plantation. You can go there now and see the plantations and the tobacco farms. There are three times as many blacks in the eastern part after you pass Raleigh, than back this way. The mountains and sand hills were settled by most of the poor whites. The poor whites settled in the Sandhills and mountains, and they were too poor to have slaves. This section of North Carolina is not conducive to raising cotton, where in the Piedmont, cotton, tobacco, and peanuts are raised. Peanuts are raised near the Virginia line in the eastern part of North Carolina. A little bit of tobacco is raised back this way, but it's mostly for cigars, but the bright leaf tobacco is raised down East. My husband was a farmer in Greene county. He raised tobacco. I have known people to sit up half the night to keep the fire at a certain temperature for curing tobacco. I: How long were you in Pitt County? K: I was in Pitt county 18 years. I went down there in 1936. I left there in 1954 and went to Statesville. I: What made you want to leave from down there? K: I tell a lot of people now if I had married the right kind of man, I guess I would have made my home down there. I really liked the people in Pitt County, but I divorced my husband who was in Connecticut working. I knew if I divorced him, I couldn't live in harmony with his coming back to Pitt County. In the meantime, I had applied for a job at Stephens-Lee, but there was not an opening. The next year after the death of my mother I was hired at Statesville, North Carolina, Morningside High School. Mr. Rutherford wanted a teacher, and he wanted a chaperon for his basketball girls. I left Pitt County. Mr. Daily was the one who got my divorce for me and everything and I left Ayden altogether. Mr. Toliver recommended me to Mr. Rutherford. I: You came to Statesville? K: I came to Statesville. I: And how long did you stay there? Kelly 10 K: Four years. I: What was Statesville like? I mean, was that a big change? K: Yes, it was a big change. I didn't care much for Statesville. The children were altogether different. Now, those children in Pitt County, North Carolina (I guess it was because they were rural children) were much better. They gave the teacher better respect than the children in Statesville. The children in Statesville were somewhat like they are here now. They would sit up and tell you what's what and so forth and go on about their business. I didn't care too much for Statesville. I had signed my contract to go back to Statesville, but when Lawyer Daily told me about this opening at Allen, I said I would be at home, I had built my house, had bought the lot and had sold the home place to the city. The city bought all that property around Stephens-Lee. I decided that I ought to be home. Allen wasn't paying as much as the state, but I said what's the use? I said I'll be home, be in my own house and everything, so they gave me a job at Allen. To answer one of your questions, I started taking English in college. I liked English and I already had some years in French. I like French, and I had liked History pretty well; so I built up a number of hours in English and in History. When I finished A & T, on my certificates were English and History. About a year or two after that, the state department wrote me and told me I had enough hours in French to put that on my certificate as a major. I sent my certificate back to the state Department and they put French on the certificate. I had enough hours, three of them, for a triple major. I: And you managed to teach all three? K: Absolutely. I have taught all three of them. I haven't taught French in a number of years. I taught English, and sometime I hear such grammatical errors over TV and radio, I say I'm going back and see if the English language has changed. Like one man was saying, it was supposed to have been to us children, and he said to we children. I was taught that the word was Michelangelo, but I've heard so many say Michelangelo. I say I'm going back and see if my English language has changed and "between you and me," that's correct, I've heard between you and I, so many times, and that's wrong. I: We were always taught the old ruling. "You take one person away and see how it sounds." K: Yes, that's what I tell my children. I say "Take one person away and see how that sounds." You wouldn't say among I, you would say among us. I see so many grammatical errors. Sometimes I talk with Lucy Harrison and you know she taught English at Stephens-Lee, and she said she just didn't understand what some of them were doing to it. But I'm telling you I said I'm going to the library and look and see. I: Do you find a difference in the quality of teachers now versus teachers then? Kelly 11 K: Well, I don't know, they say these black children definitely are not getting what they should get. They don't project their voices enough. You can't understand a thing they are saying. They gave a playlet "Hallelujah, Jesus is King" at Nazareth not too long ago, and those children wouldn't speak out. I played for the Bible School. I wanted to say something so badly but I said, "Well, I'm not directing the play and I'm not going to say anything." They wouldn't speak out worth anything. They hardly had any expression, and when we were in school we got all of that. I: They're not taught at home. K: No, they're not taught at home. I: I understand what you're saying because I came out of the secondary school system, and the difference that I see in the teachers now and teachers then is that not only did they teach us, but they had control. K: Yes, they had control. When you went into the classroom you knew you were going in there to sit down and be quiet. I subbed at Reynolds High and Middle School and I heard so many black teachers say all of the black children give you more trouble, but I didn't see any difference. I didn't see one difference. They had just a few blacks over there. See that's 98% white in the middle school and the high school. Some of those over there are devils, some white students are devils. When they see a substitute come in, they make it up in their minds to give that teacher a hard time, but I had pretty good control. And I find something else, when I was at Reynolds a lot of teachers didn't leave enough work to keep those children busy during the whole period. They left some work, and I would hand it to the children, and they would finish in about 20 or 30 minutes (now most of the school hours are an hour long). They would ask "What else for us to do?" I was called in to teach Biology for three weeks, and Biology was not my major. I had to study about as hard as the children when I was subbing in Biology at Reynolds. Every teacher was supposed to have a plan book, and write her plans in that book from week to week. That teacher didn't have plan one, and she was a white teacher too. She had lesson plans at the first of the year, then she stopped. You're supposed to have that plan book, someone is supposed to check that plan book. Somebody should check that plan book every week, because I know that's how it was done at Allen High. We had a plan book, and those plan books were checked every week but that teacher started out putting plans in her plan book and stopped. During World War II, my mother worked in the government in Washington, DC. I was still teaching in Pitt County, (Grimesland, later Ayden, NC). During the summer months, I'd go to Washington, to be with my mother. I would pick up little jobs to tide me over the summer, then I would go back to Pitt County and resume my teaching job. My mother was in Washington from 1943 until 1946 when she was hurt. She worked in the government those years. One day as she was on her way to work, a Western Union boy ran into her and knocked her down as she was crossing the street. Her hip was fractured and she was in the Emergency Hospital in Washington almost fifteen months. She was there five days short of fifteen months. In 1947 she recuperated a while with a cousin of mine in Washington, DC. During the fall of 1947, I took my mother to Ayden, North Carolina, where I was teaching. While she was in Ayden, she had trouble again with her hip. I carried her to Raleigh, North Carolina Kelly 12 (St. Agnes Hospital). She spent three weeks at St. Agnes, and she returned to Ayden, North Carolina. During the Christmas season of 1947 I brought my mother back to Asheville, North Carolina. In the meantime, we put in a suit against the Western Union. The lawsuit did not come up until 1952. We lost the suit because the Western Union Telegram boy had been off duty eight minutes. The boy did not have any money (he was black), and the company did not feel obligated to pay anything. While I was in Washington, I met several women from Texas speaking of the Emancipation Proclamation being celebrated in June. I was surprised, because the blacks in North and South Carolina celebrate the Emancipation Proclamation January 1st. The first time I attended the Emancipation Proclamation was at a courthouse in Union, South Carolina. I was a teenager, and I was in Union visiting friends and relatives. The reason why Texas celebrate the Emancipation Proclamation in June is because that is when the slaves received news that they were free. They call it Juneteenth; June 19. In July 1983, I visited a cousin who lives in Anchorage, Alaska. He was stationed there in the Army, and after he retired, he made his home there. Many Texans are in Alaska, especially Anchorage, and they celebrate Juneteenth in a big way. I saw more blacks in Anchorage than I saw in Laredo, Texas or Honolulu. In Laredo, Texas one sees mostly Mexicans and Indians. I: Do you know of any other days that blacks celebrate separately from white people? What about Martin Luther King? K: The Emancipation Proclamation is one that I know. North Carolina has not accepted Martin Luther King Birthday as a holiday, and I did not know that until this year, 1987. The state of Arizona repealed it. North Carolina has now accepted the Martin Luther King holiday. I: What have been your thoughts about integration? K: I'll reply in this way. The late Mr. McCord who lived on College Street felt that black children were not getting the same benefits from the schools as the white children. He said Lee Edwards High School had so much more to offer than Stephens-Lee High School at that time. He fought for school integration. That was after the Supreme Court Decision of Brown Versus Topeka which ruled out segregated schools. I am wondering now if the black children are applying themselves as they should. It seems that teenagers are dropping out of school. I: Has the church changed any since you were a teenager? K: Churches have changed considerably within the last fifteen or sixteen years. During the 1920's, 1930's, and on into the 1960's the leading black churches have been Mt. Zion Missionary Baptist Church, Nazareth First Baptist Church, Calvary Presbyterian Church, St. James A.M.E. Church, Hopkins Chapel A.M.E. Zion Church and St. Matthias Episcopal Church. All of these churches, including Cappaocia Holiness Church and Berry Temple United Methodist Church, are situated in the East side of Asheville. I have been organist for the St. James senior choir for ten years; before playing for the senior choir, I played for the junior choir at St. James during the year of 1977. I have mentioned before that I was organist at Nazareth First Baptist Church, of which I am a member of 19 months. During the time of the late Dr. Dunn's pastoring Kelly 13 at Nazareth, I was head of the drama department. I was baptized by the late Reverend Gordon when I was twelve years old. I was assistant pianist for the Sunday School (Nazareth) when I was a teenager. During my senior year in high school, a group of junior members sang with the senior choir, I was one. During the summer months when I would be home from school, especially when I was teaching away from Asheville, I would give programs for various church organizations to help raise money for the church. I did not receive any pay for this effort. My father, Aaron Kelly, did not connect himself here with any church. He was christened when he was a baby at Jeters Chapel A.M.E. Church in Carlisle, South Carolina. The music in the black churches has changed to some extent. Anthems are very seldom heard in the black churches now. One does not hear too many traditional Negro spirituals. The music that one hears most of the time, is the modern gospel music with a swing and sway beat along with hand clapping. Much of this music is played by pianists who play by ear and they learn to play their music from records and tapes. Sometimes the beat is added to traditional hymns. In my conclusion, I wish to mention some events or happenings that have occurred in Asheville. In 1925 two black men were accused, at different times, of raping two white women. When the first accusation occurred, a mob of white men tried to storm the jail which was then on Marjorie street. This street runs between the parking lot and Bill Stanley’s Barbecue Restaurant. They tried to storm the jail to lynch the black boy, Alvin Mansel, who was seventeen years old at the time. A few weeks later, another black man was accused of rape of a white woman. Guards were called out during the trials to prevent uprisings. Neely, the last black man who was accused, was set free. An unidentified white woman testified that he was at work in a downtown restaurant at the time he was accused, the first one was sentenced to life imprisonment. I have not heard of him since. In 1936, Martin Moore (black) was accused of murdering a young white woman in the Battery Park Hotel. This is known as the 11 Clevenger case 11, Martin Moore was electrocuted for the crime, and I was told that his body was turned over to Wake Forest College for laboratory use. Much research has been done in recent years on this case. One writer said that he may write a book about this case. During the years that I taught at Allen High School, from 1958-1974 when the school closed, I attended a drama workshop at Buell Temple College (Baptist) in Denver, Colorado. I was granted a scholarship for one week to attend the workshop. I also attended a weekend workshop in New York City, a drama workshop for one week at Scarritt College in Nashville, Tennessee, and a ten-day workshop at Holden Institute in Laredo, Texas, a private school under the Women of the United Methodist Church. I also attended a retreat "In the Oaks" near Black Mountain, North Carolina. Although I am not a member of Berry Temple United Methodist Church, I attend the Bible class held every Thursday from 12:00 p.m. to 1:00 p.m. I do hope this profile and interview will be of some benefit for students who wish to do research on black families and people in western North Carolina.

Mary Jane Kelly is interviewed by Edward Clark Smith on June 5, 1987 as a part of the Western North Carolina Tomorrow Black Oral History Project. Born in 1911 or 1912, Kelly details her schooling which includes attending Stephens-Lee during the depression, A & T College, and earning a master’s degree from Howard University in Washington D. C. She taught high school in Pitt County, North Carolina for eighteen years, in Statesville for four, and then in Buncombe County she taught at Allen Home and Reynolds High School. Kelly discusses church in Asheville, segregation, integration and desegregation, and three criminal cases against Black men in 1925.

• Creator
  • Kelly, Mary Jane
• Contributor
  • Smith, Edward Clark
• Format
  • Sound recordings
  • Transcripts
  • Interviews
• Type
  • Sound
  • Text
• Date
  • Date interview: 1987-06-05
  • Date: 1910s; 1920s; 1930s; 1940s; 1950s; 1960s; 1970s; 1980s;
  • Date digitized: 2019-10-07
• Extent
  • Duration: 54:45 (sound recording)
  • Duration: 13 pages (transcript)
• Subject - Topic
  • African American families
  • African American schools
  • African American teachers
  • African Americans
  • African Americans -- Genealogy
  • African Americans -- Religion
  • African Americans -- Social life and customs
  • Autobiography
  • Depressions -- 1929
  • Educators
  • Juneteenth
  • Kelly, Mary Jane
  • Music
  • North Carolina, Western -- Race relations -- History -- 20th century
  • Race discrimination -- North Carolina, Western -- History
  • School integration -- North Carolina, Western
  • School integration -- North Carolina, Western
  • Segregation -- North Carolina -- Buncombe County
  • Slavery
• Location
  • Buncombe County (N.C.)
  • Pitt County (N.C.)
  • Iredell County (N.C.)
  • North Carolina, Western
• Source institution
  • Western Carolina University
• Source Collection
  • Western North Carolina Tomorrow Black Oral History Project
• Identifier
  • HL_MSS98-03_Smith_Kelly_1987-06-05
• Repository
  • Western Carolina University Hunter Library