• Format
  • Transcripts
• Type
  • Text
• Extent
  • Pages: 9
• Source institution
  • Western Carolina University
• Identifier
  • HL_PAR260_Johns_Davis_Rivera_2024-11-16_transcript

Sarah Rivera 1 Interviewee: Sara Rivera Interviewer: Peyton Davis and Jeannie John Interview Date: November 16, 2023 Location: Jackson County, NC Length: 32:18 00:00 Peyton Davis: Just start the interview. So today’s date is November 16th, and my name is Peyton, and this is… 00:08 Jeannie John: I’m Jeannie. 00:09 PD: And we are talking with: 00:10 Sara Rivera: My name is Sara Rivera. 00:12 PD: Nice, perfect. And when were you born? 00:15 SR: July 11th, 1995. 00:17 PD: Nice? Okay. Where were you born? 00:21 SR: I was born in Cary, North Carolina. So right outside, Raleigh. 00:25 PD: Okay, nice. Yeah. What are your preferred pronouns? 00:29 SR: She and they kind of interchangeably. Whatever is easiest. 00:33 JJ: I know you're a grad student at Western, right? Do you live near here? 00:39 SR: Yeah. I live in Sylva off of Skyland Drive. So about 20 min from here. 00:49 PD: So yeah, I guess we will get started with our first question. Just describe yourself in broad strokes your sexual identity. Religious identity. Just whatever you want to say. 01:00 Sarah Rivera 2 SR: Okay, not a broad question at all. So I identify as just generally queer. In terms of sexuality and gender more specifically bisexual. Just not really restricted to either sort of presentation just attracted to who I'm attracted to, and then identify also more on the more fluid side of the gender scale, more in the middle kind of on either side, depending on the day. For religion, I was raised by a Pagan and an ex-Catholic, so but raised in the Bible Belt. So I even though I didn't have strong religious upbringing in terms of, my family, at least my immediate family. I was surrounded by Christianity, and especially Southern Baptist, sort of that sort of attitude that really colored the way that I lived, and even though I wasn't in as much of a religious context as a lot of my friends who have a lot of religious trauma, and I didn't have that directly from my family. It was still I still thought I was going to hell for being gay, even though that wasn't what my family was telling me. And so that's really colored how I view the world and how I view religion and my own journey of self-acceptance for sure. Yeah. 02:40 Jeannie: Yeah. So I know, you mentioned not being super religious, but I read in your little description about you being more spiritual, specifically within nature. Do you think you could elaborate on that a little bit? 02:55 SR: Yeah. So I study biology. I'm a biology grad student. And so, while I don't think that there's nothing going on in terms of a larger power in the universe, I think it's more complicated than just an all-knowing God. And the powers of nature, and evolution, if everything was just created in a day, or whatever that would be so much less exciting than the powers of evolution, and how things change over time, and the powers that affect that that are way beyond any of our comprehension. That's the sort of thing that I respect and that's how I see spiritualism and see the universe at work is looking at a flower and thinking about all of the things that have shaped that flower over time, and how that flower experiences the world in such a different way than I do. And that's where I draw spirituality and appreciation for the scale of life, I guess and that's what puts me in awe is thinking about the details of how everything works. And that's what feels a lot stronger and more important than some all-knowing being controlling that cause it seems so far beyond the power of that being to control. And even if there is something, I'm not opposed to the idea of it, because everything seems so special. It seems crazy that we would be this under the circumstances of where our planet is. Human beings are amazing too and how they shape the world so it's just crazy to think about all that stuff. And that's how I view the world is through that lens of thinking about how everything kind of came to be, and how amazing it is that it did. 04:50 PT: Yeah, that's really cool. I know, in your little sheets blurb it told us that you are in grad school studying fireflies. 04:56 SR: Yeah. 04:57 PD: Would you say that that is connected to what you were just talking about to your identity with nature and spirituality and stuff like that. 05:05 SR: Absolutely. I've recently. So I'm going on my third year of grad school specifically and but going on my, I did a little bit of an undergrad, too. So I've been studying fireflies for a hot second. And that's a big Sarah Rivera 3 part of, I'm studying basically the evolution of this specific group of fireflies, and looking at the variation in these fireflies. And then how they've evolved that way, and how much they're so different, depending on where they're at in the climate. And they've developed all these funny behaviors and stuff. But beyond that, just the evolution of that single thing, thinking about the evolution of fireflies in general, or bugs in general, and then life in general. Taking that larger view. That's easy to get caught up in the details of it, and getting disillusioned of like, oh, I'm just here dissecting fireflies like, what's the point of that? And then being able to take a step back and see maybe, how it could affect the larger picture is kind of fun. And beyond, just the hard science of it I've also been doing a lot of outreach. So I've been teaching a lot of people about fireflies in informal context. A lot of firefly walks in the spring and summer, and that was magical. Fireflies, are amazing, because even if people don't like bugs, they like fireflies, and if you take people out in the middle of the woods at night and like, show them the light show that just happens because of fireflies that is a spiritual experience within itself. Like I draw a lot of spirituality in light. One of the most spiritual experiences of my life was I was in Portugal for a firefly conference, which in itself was cool, but they have this old cathedral in like the middle of Porto, and they had this art installation, where at night they'd put on projected images on the ceiling, and lasers and played this beautiful music. And they told this beautiful story, and it was the first time that I was in a place of worship that I understood it, and I was like, I understand the beauty of this, and I understand how you could feel the presence of God because that was the time when I felt it. But it wasn't God that I felt. It was the appreciation of interconnectedness of everything, and just that beautiful moment. And so light I draw a lot of appreciation out of and getting to see that in the fireflies at night, is really cool, and it also draws in community. I got to take a bunch of my friends out to see Blue Ghost fireflies. So they have these beautiful blue clothes, and they just look like little fairy spirits in the woods, and getting to bring out, all my closest people, to see that all together was just it was a communal, beautiful, spiritual experience. So that's been really fun, and another sort of aspect of fireflies and connectness and spirituality all combined together. 08:07 JJ: That's amazing seriously. Oh, my goodness. Would you say that your spirituality with nature has grown since you've lived in the Appalachia area? Has this always been something that you've been interested in even living in Cary and everything? 08:21 SR: Yeah, I think it was always there, but it's definitely strengthened being out where I am I don't live in Sylva proper. I live kind of off a dirt road, and I have a beautiful view of some mountains, and my neighbor, has some goats. My yard is full of fireflies in the summer, and I think, all of that has definitely grown my appreciation of nature, and where I live and stuff definitely going hand in hand in that. 08:48 PD: That is really cool. So I’m gonna talk about your sexuality just a little bit. So could you tell us again what your sexuality is? 09:01 SR: I consider myself queer, and however you want to interpret that more specifically bisexual. And the reason I kind of specify is cause I like queer as a big umbrella term, and it's easier to just say that than, qualify my sexuality in any way, cause I just don't. I understand it matters, but also it kinda doesn't matter. And queer is just a very useful term. So I usually stick with that. And then, if people want more specifics, it's just bisexual, but not any binary way. My sexuality by itself encompasses all possible genders on the spectrum. Pansexuality has risen up, as we're the most inclusive one. But bisexuality was Sarah Rivera 4 never exclusive. So that was the term that I found earlier on than Pan. And so that's the one that I choose to go with. And that sort of came about, I didn't really, bisexual erasure is a big thing, and I didn't really know it was an option. I just knew there was gay and straight. And I figured I like guys, I guess I'm straight. Girls are really pretty, but I can't date them because that's sinful. And even though I don't believe in sin or hell I, that's taboo. And I'm gonna avoid it because that's scary and I want to break society's limits, or whatever. Because there were so many external forces telling me that was wrong. And I just never saw it really. I saw lesbians. And I was like, that's not really me either though. And when I kind of became aware it was my first day at Western, or within my first week, and I was sitting in a class, and the cutest girl walked in, and I just was like goddamn it like, damn it! Like yay, but like no cause, I always thought oh man, gay people! It's so cool they look so happy, like so free. And I wish I was gay. But I'm not. I like guys. So and all my friends were like uh-huh. Sure. 11:04 PD: Were you able to find that identity then through a community at Western? 11:09 SR: It took me some time. So I had I made some friends early on at Western who are also bi. And so we found solidarity in that, and we were kind of able to help each other find acceptance. But that was like one friend. And then I started here at Western in 2019. So in the fall. So that spring semester was when COVID hit. So I lost a lot of that potential for community, and I was also living with my ex at the time. We moved to Sylva together. We lived together for a couple of years before that and then we broke up like the end of February 2020. And so in that point of time where I really wanted to go out and make friends and find myself outside of this relationship that defined my life for so long years. And I just couldn't go anywhere, do anything, or meet anyone. And that was really disappointing. But he was really supportive of my sexuality and my, the beginning thoughts from the gender thing and it felt like a very safe space. But I wish I had been able to find that community, and it wasn't until I got to explore it a little bit the summer of 2021 I went down to Mississippi to do some work for the summer and I went to some gay clubs there, and it was really cool. And it was like, Okay, I like this, this is cute, but don't actually know any of these people. I don't really. I'm not here long enough to get involved in this community. And then, when I came back, I had more of an eye out for stuff happening in Sylva and there's a huge, queer community here. And so I've been able to find that group. And I started doing drag last August and have really, we have multiple drag shows a month, and we have drag Karaoke every Wednesday. And it's just I've been able to find this beautiful community. And it's really helped me feel really accepted and come to terms with that, there's nothing wrong with me, and like how I feel, it's totally fine. And there's so many other ways that all of this can look, and there's no boundaries to any of it. And it's been really beautiful, and I am really grateful that I found out. 13:33 JJ: Yeah, that is amazing, for sure. So do you think that your sexual identity has affected your path to or away from religion and tradition. 13:45 SR: Yeah, I think it's definitely made me feel more jaded about it, because a lot of my friends, especially all my queer friends they were raised in religion. I feel like my position of not being raised in religion, but being in the South is very unique. I feel like that's not most people's story. And so, seeing how religion has honestly fucked up so many of my friends and their relationships with their families, and I just don't feel like it makes sense that a religion that preaches love and acceptance is so hateful I don't understand that. And it's really I, in any opportunity I could have had to get closer to religion, maybe that's where I Sarah Rivera 5 would have found my kind of community in 2020 or whatever. But instead, I found it in this, and that's become its own quasi-religious thing wherein we worship each other, and we worship free expression, and we all have our own views. One of my best friends in the queer community, Beulah Land, She's one of the big drag queens. I love her. She's she was raised super religious, and her family doesn't really accept her because of the religion thing, but she hasn't turned her back on religion, she's still very much a Christian woman, and she held a whole mass before Sylva Pride, and like seeing her be able to balance those two things, and still find religion an acceptance in religion, especially for herself. Even when religion turned its back on her. It's really amazing to be able to see that. And that's not something I can comprehend, because I don't have the fundamental relationship with religion. I have, I don't want to be involved in it, because it should be something so much different. And I like that there's a lot of churches in the area that are trying to get more inclusive and more involved. But I still have a healthy skepticism, and just I don't know your true intentions, I understand maybe this is what you're trying to do, but I have no way of knowing what your intentions are, so I'm going to stay away. Another source of religion for me is my mom is Pagan, and so she's a part of what is called Church of the Earth. And so that brings together a bunch of pagans and all of their different views of the world. So I've gotten to also understand all of those different views and how they practice and stuff. And it's just this big, beautiful conglomeration of different attitudes about the world. And so being able to see all of those different modes, and compare that to the singularity and uniformity of Christianity, and being able to contrast those two, and favoring one over the other. I feel like all those influenced my relationship with it, if any of that made sense. 16:46 JJ: Yeah, oh, yes, it did. 16:48 PD: I know you said you started drag in August? 16:50 SR: That was August of last year. 16:54 PD: Okay, okay, so how would you say that's affected how you express yourself, how it's changed to you. 17:04 SR: Oh, that's a good question. I think it's definitely grown my confidence. It's grown my ability to express how I feel on the inside with the outside. I love earrings. So I always make sure I'm wearing funny earrings. If I'm feeling an earring day, you know. It's given me agency and power. I would say beyond just dressing up and, I feel my drag is very unique, I try to incorporate science communication in it as often as I can. And I try to tell stories. Yeah, I have a whole Firefly mix. That's like 8 different songs and teaches about predatory fireflies. And it's really fun and getting to take this art form and try to include fun messages in it is like my favorite thing. So it's given me a really good creative outlet. It's helped me figure out different ways to teach science and art, and tell stories, and then being able to translate that into how I'm translating myself to the world. Also gives me a great opportunity to go clothes shopping which I love cause I love being able to find different ways to express myself and feel comfortable. And just different outlets of all of that. 18:27 Sarah Rivera 6 JJ: And I'm sure you found, have you found a lot of comfort in that community as well? I know you mentioned being really close and everything. Yeah, yeah. 18:36 SR: Absolutely. It's a, it's a family. And I've really appreciated getting to be a part of that, because it was something that I wanted for so long and never found. And now I'm finding it. And it's, it's so beautiful. And it's so many people who don't have relationships with, their close actual family. And so we get this chosen family that we get to make however, we want. And it's really wonderful, that gives me a lot of spiritual strength as well as like being able to see this chosen family and this community definitely. 19:09 JJ: Nice. 19:10 SR: Yeah. 19:12 Jeannie: So if you're comfortable with it. Would you to talk about your coming out journey? 19:17 SR: Yeah, okay. So it was a lot more coming to terms with myself. It was, I always kind of questioned it, and it always was like, Oh, well, maybe one day I might date a girl I don't know that'd be weird or joking with friends. Yeah, if we're 40 and unmarried, let's just get married to each other sort of deal, and I never understood the hate around gay marriage, or anything like that, because the only reason that they would be against that is using religion as an excuse, and that didn't feel like a bent, why, stop people just from just getting married when they're in love, that doesn't make sense. Same with abortion, the only if the only argument you have against that is that Jesus doesn't, you're not reading the Bible A, and B, that’s a shitty argument. Let people have agency. But yeah, sorry. So it wasn't so much. I just never saw it as an option to be bi cause I never saw a representation of it I didn't know it was a thing really and then that big moment of realizing, Oh, no! I like female presenting people in a different way, I don't want to just be friends with that person, they're really pretty. And then that was really scary, because it was I always thought that I wasn't that. And then, realizing that I was, and then realizing that I would then become the target of all of that hate. But I would be able to also use my cloaking superpowers to be like, no, but I'm dating guys I'm totally straight. And then just, how I like to describe. It is like the bag of Orida fries like the frozen fries, and said like Zesty Straight, I was like, That's me. And then one day I realize, oh, no, that's that's no longer me. And it gave me a lot of power, and doing the drag thing, too. It's like I feel I'm free to express how I want to be. And so over time I've hope that I've expressed myself in a more gay way, so I don't really have to come out to people. They'll just kind of look at me and know if that's if you don't know that's on you, but I also wanna be able to kind of sneak in and out of places. But my family was all really cool about it. I told them that I broke up with my ex, and then that I was bi in the same conversation. And it went really well, and I don't think any of them were really surprised. There was a moment of Oh, really, okay, that's fine. The gender thing is a little bit more complicated to describe, and I don't want it to become a thing so I've discussed that with my family a little less, but I'm still trying to come to terms with all of it, too. So that's been a harder conversation. But the bisexuality was no big deal. Then again, I don't think any of them were that surprised. And then so my friends, I don't think any of them are really surprised too. They were all just like congrats. You found, you figured it out good for Sarah Rivera 7 you. And then I've been just trying to be more out about it and more visible. And I wanna be the representation I never really had. So a big thing that I've been putting a lot of my energy towards since I started drag and this year is, I've made my own science communication organization. Which is cool to say, and it's called THEM in STEM. So I want it to be that them that queer representation, especially now that, there's so much anti-queer and anti-trans sentiment going on in legislation. And so I wanted the them to be very relevant. But also I can say that it's just them, isn't everybody, and also to hopefully destigmatize that word as in like THEM, is just everybody. It's not just for non-binary people. It's for everybody. Also, it's not scary if there's a queer person teaching science. And I really wanna be that Ms. Frizzle of drag or the Steve Irwin of drag I wanna be that force of you're you. And you're okay and who you are is special. And here's, the world is so much more beautiful than you think, and you're a beautiful part of that world. So I want to spread that. But I also really don't want to attract the wrong kind of attention. I made a post that I was gonna be at Sylva Pride, and I was gonna be handing out coloring books, like coloring pages and stickers and stuff cause I do science story times in the style of a drag story time. So I have coloring pages and stickers and shit. And I ended up on a hate group on Facebook. They were like, people are gonna be handing out coloring pages at Sylva Pride, what the fuck. And it's just like I'm literally gonna be there and glitter and not threatening it. I'm telling the kids that they're okay to be who they are and, why is, why am I the enemy here? So I want to make sure that I can be that. And I'm I wanna be who I wanted to see growing up. So I hope that I can be that and grow this into something that can show people, and hopefully, even get into those homophobic households who are just this is a person with Glitter who's gonna be reading a book about science, I don't like the gays. But this is clearly not a gay, because it's a woman dressed up as a woman, as far as I can tell, like. So this is safe to show my child. And then that child sees that it's okay to like glitter. And it's okay to like science. And the two things aren't mutually exclusive. and hopefully open the doors to more people who haven't felt accepted by the scientific community and academic community. 25:30 SR: Okay, I can hear you now, it came. 25:32 Jeannie: the next question, if you're comfortable, can you describe the social acceptance or rejection of your community base because of race? 25:43 SR: I haven't. I've been lucky enough that I haven't really experienced too much of that. I am half Hispanic though, my dad's from Mexico, so if anything it's that, but I don't really look it. And so people don't think. And sometimes they'll say some kind of shitty things. Not anyone I'm close to everyone I'm close to you is pretty inclusive and sweet, but a lot of times I don't feel acceptance from the Latino community, because I'm not Latino enough, but sometimes I feel excluded from white people, because I'm not white enough, and but and anytime we would go to Mexico to visit my dad's family on a regular basis, and I was always just the gringa in the corner, and not really accepted by my family there, but also my family there is super Catholic. I think I have one gay cousin who I don't know how their experience has been, but so I'm not too annoyed of not being part of that, but not being able to access that segment of my culture and my identity is difficult, but people here don't clock me for that so I haven't experienced much hate, but also not getting to be recognized, for that part of my identity is also difficult. So but that's the extent of it. I have never been called out for anything. 27:10 JJ: Okay. Sarah Rivera 8 27:11 PD: I guess as we come to kind of the end-ish of the interview. I just wanna ask when it has come to this journey of you exploring yourself, What would you say has brought you the most satisfaction about everything? 27:30 SR: That's a good question. There was clearly a moment yesterday I was at Karaoke and this older trans woman came up, and it was the first time that I'd seen her out, and I don't know her history. But she just looked like she was having a really nice time, and seeing her feel safe in a spot where maybe she hasn't felt safe before, or in a community where maybe she hasn't found that safety. But seeing her find that safety was really beautiful, and I came up to her I mentioned, talked to her after. And I was just like, Hey, I'm really glad you came out it was really nice to meet you and stuff. And she just said that I had really good energy, and I lit up the room and stuff, and that just felt really special that, not only does all this community, exist. But I've, I'm a science communicating drag queen studying fireflies in my spare time, and that's fucking cool. And I can walk into a drag karaoke and still somehow, light up the room. And it was just it was cool to think about how far I've come. And discovering this really cool person that I am. The spirituality and sexuality, and all of that have they all play their different parts, and I've been able to kind of bring it all together, and being able to take a step back from my own head that always tells me that I'm not enough, or that, I'm a horrible person, and being able to find definitive evidence of like, no, I'm pretty fucking cool, I'm, if this stranger thinks so, then like that, just, I feel really special. And so the moments where I get to get that validation. Not that I need the validation, but it's helpful sometimes, and that's really nice to get that and realize that there is nothing wrong with me, and that I have unique things to offer the world. And that feels pretty good. 29:40 PD: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's really, really cool, especially with your connection with nature and just your study of fireflies, that is, 29:48 JJ: Oh, my God, yeah. 29:49 PD: I read that on the thing I was, I though that is fantastic, and I guess that’s kind of the end of interviewee questions. But I'm I am just curious, what you want to do with fireflies I think that's so cool. 29:55 SR: Yeah. Well, my plan right now is my partner now, he's also bi, and also wonderful. And we're, we've been able to just find this community together and be in it together. And it's really nice and he's wonderful. But he might, he's thinking about sticking around and doing a master's with the history department. He's doing his master's right now in the biology department, that's how he met, but he doesn't like biology anymore. So he's thinking about going this other avenue. So I'm not mad about staying in Sylva for a couple more years, and I'd love to in that time build up THEM in STEM as a bigger force and a more sustainable thing. But I would love to one day work with museums or something. I would love if I could turn THEM in STEM into a bigger thing, and be able to support myself by taking people out into the woods to look at fireflies and hosting. I'm trying to do nerd nights and craft nights and story times and stuff and so I would love to just keep getting to do stuff like that. But it's also hard to think about, well, what am I actually going to be able to support myself doing? But I'm building this Sarah Rivera 9 whole thing on the side that I can keep doing, no matter what I do for a day job. I can, I'm good at repetitive tasks, I can find some shitty work from home thing that's pretty redundant. But as long as I have this on the side that's my baby that I've seen grow, and it allows me to do the things that I want to do then that'll be really cool. 31:46 PD: Nice. Yeah. 31:47 JJ: Well, I think that's all the questions we have for you. Yeah. And there come the lights. Well, thank you so much for sharing your incredible story with us today. This has been such a pleasure. 32:04 SR: I enjoy chatting with you all, too, so thank you so much 32:06 PD: And good luck with your THEM in STEM thing. 32:11 SR: Feel free to follow me on social media.

Sara Rivera is a graduate student at Western Carolina University studying biology, specifically fireflies. Rivera talks about growing up in the Bible Belt and how that affected the way she viewed the world. She shares how she came to the realization she is bisexual, her experience with drag, and the story of coming out to her friends and family. Rivera discusses her feelings on spirituality, and explains the science communication organization she started, THEM in STEM.

• Creator
  • Rivera, Sara
• Contributor
  • Davis, Peyton
  • John, Jeannie
• Format
  • Sound recordings
  • Transcripts
  • Interviews
• Type
  • Sound
  • Text
• Date
  • Date interview: 2023-11-16
• Extent
  • Duration: 0:32:18
  • Pages: 9
• Subject - Topic
  • Bisexual college students
  • Bisexual women
  • Coming out (Sexual orientation)
  • Drag community
  • LGBTQ+ college students
  • LGBTQ+ people
• Location
  • Jackson County (N.C.)
• Source institution
  • Western Carolina University
• Source Collection
  • WCU Gender and Sexuality Oral History Project
• Identifier
  • HL_PAR260_Johns_Davis_Rivera_2024-11-16