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Interview with Rufus Adell

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  • Adell 1 Western North Carolina Tomorrow Black Oral History Project Interviewer: Edward Clark Smith (I) Interviewee: Rufus Adell (A) County: Buncombe Date: 7/22/87 A: Jim Floyd, he had to move by night. In other words, what he done-- Now, she wouldn't take nothin' out of your house. But he was going to move off her place. Anything you've raised on that, and didn't make no difference, she wouldn't let you take it off. She 1 d take everything. I: That was while you were sharecropping for her. A: Yeah. She'd take everything you had. Whether you owed it to her or not, she took it. But if you was going to stay on, she didn't bother nothin' you had, give you every nickel was coming to you. Said “you just wasn't gone make stuff on her place and then take it off and move over on another man's land.” And Jim Floyd-- I: Now who was Jim Floyd? A: That was just another sharecropper. He had lived on one [other] [of her] place --He'd been there several years. He took all this stuff off by night. Corn, everything. Then when he got ready to move, he loaded up the stuff in his house and he moved it out, and he was gone before she know it. They took about five years to nab him. Then he come by there and she's just cold. She talked just like she had honey in her mouth. She's a mean ol' devil. [Chuckle] She got him in the house, throw the cook on him, and lock the door, and put a [chuckle] bag o' wood on him. She just landed on him, I guess. Why, you can't outsmart Miss Etta Brooks. Nobody outsmart Miss Etta Brooks and get by. And she would tie him up and said the only way he got outta there, you know, he just went to runnin', and went crazy, and went to breakin' up her dishes. And she couldn't stand that. She unlocked the door and let him out and said but [overcome by laughter] Well, my granddaddy knowed, knowed that, he knowed about it. He moved all his stuff away at night. An ol’ colored fellow lived on the other side of him; he moved his fattenin' hogs over there -- he had four big fattenin' hogs -- he moved them over there two or three weeks before they got ready to move. And he moved up all his stuff, and then she didn't get nothin'. [Laughter] Man! He's been in some trouble with people. I: Where was your granddaddy from? Where did he come from? A: Uh-h, my granddaddy come from Whitmire with my Grandma. I: What was his name? A: Bob. Bob Adell. I: Bob Adell. Adell 2 A: Un-huh. So I was born with Granddaddy's name. I: Did you ever meet your granddaddy-- A: Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I met him! Sho'! I: How did he --What was he like? A: What do you mean? I: What kind of person was he? A: Oh, he was a nice guy. I: What kind of work did he do to earn a living? A: He farmed. He farmed. He farmed till he got too old to farm. Well, after Grandma died, why, he stayed around there and he quit farming. Me and him farmed till oh -- I was with him, I stayed with him. We stayed on this man’s place. He farmed that two years and then he moved to Newberry. I: From Whitmire co Newberry? A: Well, he was living at-- Whitmire was where he was home. But we were living eight mile below Newberry down at a little ol' place called Prosperity, and then he moved to Newberry and worked some on public works. ‘Course he had a lotta age on him. Folks back then, old can, worked, you know what it was. Ain't like-- they wasn't on retirement, you know what I mean. In other words they'd be --Wasn't no retirement on a farm anyway-- I: How old was he when he quit working? Do you remember? A: No, I really, I really don't know. And 'course I was a boy, and I didn't even get to go to the funeral. I: Where was your grandmother from? What was her name? A: Her name was Charlotte. Charlotte. I: Do you remember her maiden name? A: No, I really don't. I: Her name before she married him. A: Wait a minute, I'm trying to think. Wallace. She was a Wallace. Adell 3 I: Where was she from? A: She's up there, up in there by Whitmire. I never met none of her people. 'Cause you see I was a small boy, and I was -- oh, I don't know. Oh, I remember her dying, but I wasn't too -- I reckon I mighta been ten-twelve years old. I: When your mother died? A: My grandmother, my grandmother. I: Your grandmother, uh-huh. A: My grandmother. See I stayed with my grandmother. My grandmother raised me. I: Uh-huh. Well, where was your mom? A: Well, my mom, she lived -- she was living at that time, she ain't now -- but I was, what you say, a "legitimate" child. My momma had me before she was married, and I always stayed with Grandma. That's the the name I knowed, you see what I mean. You understand what I'm saying. I: Um-hum. A: And Momma died two or three year ago. I: How old was she when she died? A: 'Bout -- Ted! Ted? Hey, Ted! How old was Momma when she died? Seventy years old? Huh? ... About seventy years old. Might be off a little bit, but somewhere along there. I: So how did you get to this county? What county were you in? A: We was in Buncombe County, Fairview Township. I: OK. How did you get here? A: He come from Newberry County. I: So he came up here looking for work. A: Yeah. I: Do you know where he got a job at? A: No, really, I really don't know, I really don't know who he was working for, but he was working for some contractor, but I don't know who. And they was up here, they hadn't been up Adell 4 here too long, and I had got a job on state highways. Back then, they didn't have front-end loaders and bulldozers and they didn't have that. They hauled gravel to put on roads; you had to load ‘em with a shovel. And I worked for the state. That was what'd you say, the first, or the second, what I called other job, or public job, but the first job that I got was helping a man at a filling station. I: How old were you? A: 'Bout 17. I: So were you about 17 when you came? A: Yeah, I was about 17 when -- I: What year was that? A: Oh-h-h… I: About what year? A: Nineteen-twenty-six. Somewhere in there -- about 19 or 17 year old, somewhere in there. I: So you first started working in a service station? A: First started in a service station. And this guy had a big truck, and me and this ol' boy. He had this other boy drove the truck hauling lumber, and sometime after the filling station closed, moon shinin'. And I worked there a while, I left there. I worked there a while and then got on this here highway department, worked for the state. And I left the state and come here. I: How long did you work for the state? A: Oh-h, I guess, probably a year. I guess I worked there about a year. I: Did they pay any money? A: Oh, well, yeah, they were paying. I don't know, tell you the truth, it's been so long I don't know. I: What was the work like? I know it was hard but -- A: Well, other words is, you know, just -- they had what they call a gravel pit, and you load up them truck with them shovel. Throw that stone in there, and one drive out, another'n drive in. I mean -- I: And you shoveled all day. Adell 5 A: All day. I mean, they didn't work you too hard that you couldn't make it, but you worked. Now, you take now, they got, you know, paved roads and all that stuff. Wasn’t so much stuff as that, no, wasn't no ditch diggers at that time. They dug a ditch over your head, you done it with a shovel. I seen folks dig ditches, the ditch be so deep right here in Asheville. They had a system. You had a certain layer and the man that placed there with a man stand there and you throw tl1at dirt to him and he'll pick it up, he throw it on out. You ever hear tell of A. B. and Reid [?] and them putting down a water line. Well, they used to put down water lines and sewer lines, all up around Beech Street. I'd work for them. Worked there by God 'at I come to Asheville, with [Allport?], Allpoke Construction Company. They got a place on -- they got a transfer place now, I believe it's Angle's Transfer place on [Battle] Street. We used to meet there every morning, had that white truck and everything in it. Used to pour concrete. That was the first job I got when I come down here, and I worked for them-- oh, I don't know… how long I did. I worked for 'em till they went out of business, till they got where they wasn't gone pay, you know. I: What was Asheville like when you first got here? Where did -- you came to Fairview? A: No, I was in Asheville, I was in Asheville. I didn’t know nobody. I was in Asheville then. Asheville was. . . Well, Asheville was pretty good in a way of speaking, I reckon. Now, it might have been this. It was a lot of work, and they -- It was more money than I had been making, of course, and I believe-- I don't know at that time they… wasn’t payin' but about three dollars and a half a day for work. I: How long, 'bout how many hours was it? A: Well, you had to make eight, nine hours. 'Course now it might have been some special job you might have got a little bit more money. You wasn't making too much money, but, God, it was whole lot more than a lot of folks had been making. And so if, again, it went up some. I: Now, when you came to Asheville, you came by yourself, didn't you? A: Yeah, I came by myself. I: And you were about 17 years old. A: Yeah. I: When you were down at Newberry and at Whitmire, did you go to school? Did they have school down there? A: No. They had-- here's what they used to have 'bout the school business. They had -- what? -- Three or four months. And that's about all the school black people got. And the teachers they had -- you know what I mean -- they didn't know too much, In fact, since I got to I looked into it and thought about it and see what . They didn't intend for black people for learn anything. That was the bottom line. That was the bottom line. They didn't intend for – they didn't have no school much, see, and they didn't want a Negro to go to school. They want him to be out at work. ‘Course the laws have changed. They got to go to school now. They got to go to school now. Adell 6 I: What was the school like? Did you ever go? A: I might a little bit. See, what happened, my granddaddy, I stayed with him after Mamaw. He didn’t make me go and I didn't have sense enough to know that I oughta went. And I didn't get none. I: You just worked with him? A: Yeah, with my [granddaddy]. Until I got big enough that I could get on a job, then I got on a job. I mean, just like I say, I got on that job at the -- I: What made you decide you'd come here to Asheville? A: Well, I tol' you I had an auntie -- I: You had the aunt and uncle. A: -- and I come up here, come up here and got a job. Come up here on Sunday night and got a job on Monday, that's [awful] and went to work with no problem. ‘Course I knowed how to work, as far as that goes. I: What was the town like? I mean, what were the people like in Asheville when you came? What were the black people -- did black and white -- how did --. First of all, how did black and white folk get along down where you were, where you came from, down in Whitmire and Newberry? A: Well, they got along pretty well. I mean, they got along pretty well, but, you know, the further down south and here back up in the country you get, the more wider the gap is between white folks and black people. ‘Cause they had run -- as I said -- they had done so many years just like they wanted to and they still -- they didn't want to change so if the change hadn't about but they thought that they could run it just like it's been the same seventy-six. And I come here to Asheville, I didn’t have no problem. The problem was all right. ‘Course, a lot o' things has changed now which it wasn't changed at that time. You know that. 'Cause you could go any o' them joints in Asheville. I used to be bad to -- Well, I drank liquor at that time. I don't know whether you call it bad or not. I: A man had a choice. A: Well, at that time -- Come on in, Joe! Huh? Where you going? I: Who is it? A: Joe. I: Is that your son? Adell 7 A: Son-in-law. [Gets faint.] He's going up in them places see them black gals, walk. They want to do it. And I just want to—I’m just going on about my business. Now, if you or me had had one of them in there, they'd – it’d been trouble. Well, now, the way it is nowadays, ain't nothin’ they can do about it. 'Course, for my part, I don't--I don't know. I got a grandson married a white girl. She [looked] very good, and get along all right. She a nice kid I mean, as far as that goes. [He was very pensive in here and voice got low.] But that's what they wanted, all right. I think that is the way it ought to be. I: Do you remember any major floods or any major events like hurricanes or [covered by dog fight]… A: Wah!! Hey! Hey! I: …events like that? A: Well, now, that's since I been here. I went home one time at Newberry to see my momma-- I: What was her name? A: Hattie. I: Hattie. A: Yeah. Hattie Brown [first s.l. ‘Bryan or Bryant’, later was surely Brown] Yeah, see her first husband died and she married again. I: What was her first husband's name? A: Leonard Haire? I: Leonard Haire. So she was first Hattie Wallace? A: No. You talkin' 'bout my grandmother. I: OK, your momma and her husbands. A: Yeah. Her first name was Adell. She married Leonard Haire. He died, and then she married Ol' Man Brown. What was his--Brown, that was his last name. Hattie Brown. I can't think of his other name. And they lived together, oh, I don't know, fifteen or twenty years. And then she died, and she lived on six or seven years, ten, something like that, and she died. I: Now, how many brothers and sisters did you have? A: I've got one sister, three-- Adell 8 I: What was her name? A: Ruth. I: Ruth Adell? A: No, she was a Haire, see. I: Ruth Haire. A: Um-hm. I: And where does she live? A: She's in New York. I: But she was born in [Whitmire]? A: No, in Newberry. I: Newberry. And then what was the other child’s name? A: I got one brother name Tom, Tom Haire, and Obie Haire, and my baby brother, he wore the same name I did, Adell Haire, that’s what – I don’t know why, but he went [in?] Adell but which he was a Haire; he was the baby boy. And, o’ course, them two – Obie and him – is dead. And they ain’t but three of us living now. I got one brother and one sister. I: As a child growing up, what was Christmas like? A: Pretty nice. In other words, onliest reason that Christmas is not good for children now or they don’t enjoy it, they get too much all the year. Now, you know, if you take a kid. We didn’t get a whole lot o’ junk every week, all that kinda stuff or any time children – a lot of kids go to the store with their momma. “I want this, a little ol’ toy, this, that, another.” She’ll buy it. Or dad’ll do the same thing. Well, then, when Christmas come, he been getting’ it all year. And she’ll just go – I: And don’t spank the child. A: Yeah, don’t spank the child. And, you know, your own kid, your grand kid – if you can’t give ‘em a big piece of money, they don’t want a small present. I’m talking about my kids. They want you to give ‘em a big piece of money. Or either it had to be a awful big present before he appreciate it. But we didn’t get – we didn’t get it. I: What was it like for you? What would you get? What would you get? Adell 9 A: What? Christmas time? Well, you know, get a few little toys and, well, maybe some clothes, you'd have apples, oranges, candy. You didn't get all that stuff all the year, all the time. Now kids get all that stuff anytime they want to. Well, I realize a whole lot of things, that the folks didn't have money like they have now. What is that? Just checking in? [I think this was to somebody else.) Since I been through some rough places, rough spots. That bo -- I: What would you call a rough spot? Tell me, what would you call a rough spot, Mr. Rufus? A: Well, what I call rough spots, you can't make enough money to feed your family, and if you can't feed 'em you can't clothe 'em. 'Cause if you ain't got money to buy food with, you sure can't buy clothes. And I have worked week in and week out and never see a piece o' money 'cause the folks didn't have any, and that was tough. But… everybody was a-seemed to be neighborly with each other. That was the only thing. They was -- you know, they wasn’t above each other. I mean, nobody was above the rest because they was down there with you. And, now, I got more money in my pocket right now -- and that wouldn't be all that much in a way of speaking -- that I wouldn't a' made-- I couldn't a' made that much money back then in five years. I: We1l, when did you get married? A: Well, I been married twice. My first wife is dead. I: What was her name? A: Virginia. I: Was she here? A: Yeah, she was here, she was born in North Carolina. I: What was her maiden name? A: Patilla [sp?]. I: Virginia Patilla. And did you all have kids? A: Yeah. I: What were their names? A: Let's see, one named Robert, one named John, one named James. I: And they all go under Adell. I had eight and one killed. I: You had eight children by her. Adell 10 A: Five boys and two girls. I: What happened to the one that was killed? A: Well, he married. Him and his wife, Paula, he had three kids. He had two boys and a girl. She took the kids and she left. And he got a job working in Asheville. Did you ever hear tell of Carrie [Hince?]? Well, you ask Russell. I: The name sounds familiar, I think. A: She lived down there in one of those -- she used to live – You know where the old jail is – where the old jail used to be on Eagle Street? I: Um-hm. A: She lived in the first or about the second house on the left going down. And then she left there. She moved right across the street on Poplar Street, right at the back of Alley Home School. She run a house. You name it, it was there. And he got -- that boy got to going with her. And then Edgar -- He'd been working down there at [Solidated?] metal and scrap iron place, I think that's right, used to be on Sweetview Road in Biltmore, right above Biltmore coming this way, that's where he worked in there. Well, his girl -- [they were {livin’ on} mere ruous?] -- she were living with her other granddaddy, and that girl, she had them other two with her, the two boys. Well, he had took out insurance down there. Carrie wanted him to make her that insurance and he didn't do it. And they some difference about it. And I understand that he was getting ready to leave there, ‘course which I'd been talkin' to him and other folks had talked to him. And she took out an insurance on him, and I don’t know how long—I don't know how long she'd had it out, I don't know how much it was. But, anyway, she took it out on him, and they killed him, somebody shot him. She said her brother said that he done it. But they killed him. He died in the hospital. And I -- she had that insurance -- she was gone try to cash it, that insurance he had made to the gal. Well, I went – I knowed he had the insurance made to the girl 'cause he had told me. I went to the place, down at where he worked there, and I asked the man, and he said, “Well, said, ''Listen," said “Charles” -- his name was Charles -- said, “Charles has got the insurance. It's made to his daughter." His daughter! I said I know it's made to that, 'cause, I said I’m the one filled it out. He said, “This insurance is made to her cause it's through our company. And he said, “And I hope she would cash it.” Said, “She ain't ever went to the penitentiary, she would go this time.” And, he said, “You go up there, and it's [he's] up there." And I said, well, I'm not going by myself. I went to the Police Department, told the man my business, and I told him I wanted him to go with me. Said I don't want to go by myself. I’m not --I don't want to go by myself. I want you to go with me. And she sent a man with me. And I told him what the man told me down at the plant, and he went and told her--He went with me, [to tell the company]. And she said, "Well, I don’t know anything about it.” And the man said, ''Well, the man at the plant said he brought the policy home.'' He said, “I’m gonna give you two hours to bring it to the place if you can find it." Said, “If you don’t,” said, “I’m coming back.'' and said, “I’m gone get you." She found it. Found it quick. He said, "You knowed where it was at all." Said, “You intended to try to do something ‘bout it. You intended to cash it.'' I reckon I oughta had let her cash it. I shoulda let her cash it. And that -- But she had a bunch o' people would swear any kinda lie for her. Adell 11 I: Um-hm. A: Then, after he was buried, I never would have no use for Jesse Ray. [Long pause.] Well, I just – that – I: What made you decide to move out of Asheville? A: Well, actually, my first wife, they owned some property down there. They had some property down there, and I moved out here. An old guy that I had been working some for in Asheville, he bought a place up there. I was working for him in Asheville. He went around down tearing down houses. He tore down the old courthouse and all that stuff. And he moved out here, and he wanted to come out here, and I worked for him, and my wife, she had four acres down there and I built a little ol' house down there and we moved down here. At first, I rented a house up there from Carl [Robinson], and then I built a little ol' house down there, and that's been--oh, Lord -- 'cause me and my wife been married this second time about 30 years. I: You’ve been married 30 years to the second wife? A: Ted! [See—this may be wife’s name?] Hey, Ted! How long we been married, 30 years? [May have been a reply that I couldn’t hear a reply] I: How long were you married the first time? A: Shoot, I don't know. I got my oldest boy 57 years old. I: You been married all your life. A: I been married a pretty good while. I: When did you start raising pigs? You been raising pigs a long time? A: Uh-h-h, yeah, I is. Exactly years. [pause] I been-- let's see, can I get that thing exactly – (pause). I been raising pigs, I guess, at least 25 years. I: How'd you get started? A: Well... I: You say you first moved out here and you had you four acres. A: Well, well, I had a few pigs down there but [TAPE SUDDENLY SWITCHES TO VERY FAINT THEN COMES BACK UP] I wasn't raising ‘em. I mean, you know, what you might say, if I had to sign, and raised a few a letter and so forth on, but when I really started to raising pigs has been about 25 years ago. I bought me a truck, an old truck. I was working at the time and I Adell 12 had a job. And I got me a few slop places. Come just picking up slop. I started with two. I didn’t have but two, just two. I: Did you work all day and raise pigs all night? A: Well, no, I didn’t fool with -- I didn’t raise ‘em all night. I mean that I’d come in and feed ‘em and all, but – And I used to have a mule; I used to farm some. I was farming and working at the tannery, and I had a – Um-hm. I worked down there for fifteen years. Fifteen years straight. I: What was your job? A: I was working in a laboratory, making leather, for the gentlemen. And on Saturday, I went where I had seven-acre bottom on Cane Creek. I'd just -- I wouldn't break it up. I'd get a man to break it up with a tractor, and I had a mule, wagon. I'd hook up that mule and go over there [try to sale and make it?] before I come back. I: And he worked all -- When did you party? What did you do to entertain yourself, as a young man? A: Well… I: Did you go to parties? Did you dance? A: Well, I'd been -- Yeah, you’d go to a dance. ‘Course I never was -- I used to like to go break dance. They used to give some dances out here in the country, you know, what they call frolics, you know. You know what I'm talking about. I: Yeah-h-h. [Laughter] Did you frolic? A: Yeah, man, I did. [More laughter] I know he had a good time. Yeah, I been to 'em. But I never did like this 'yere town dance. I never did fool with that. Nah. I tell you something else. In all my doing, I'll tell you something I ain't never done--shot a game o’ pool. I've stood and looked at people shoot. I ain't never hit a ball. I ain’t ever been at people shoot. I ain't never hit a ball. I ain't ever been a-bowlin’. I never did like it. I don't like ball games. I: What did you like to do when you were growing up? A: Oh, you know, I'd like to go somewhere. Laugh and talk, something another like that, but I never did like ball. I'd go to ball games with somebody else, but this crazy about a ball game, I don't care nothin' about a ball game. I don't care much about it. I reckon lotta boys probably like it. But like on television when a lot of folks -- Well, now, sometime I get into some o’ them ol' love pictures. I'll look at it. I'll look at that ol' [big?] ah, “Facts of Life,” and all that junk. I: Now did y'all -- How did y'all court back then? How did you court a girl that you wanted to marry? How did you go about getting her? Adell 13 A: Just about like you would now. How'd you go about getting one? I: It's hard now. [Lots of laughter] A: Well, other words, you see, what happened about that, ah -- well, if you see somebody you like and you start talking with ‘em, 'n' she likes you, well, things begin to fall in place, now, if she likes you and you likes her. But everybody you talk to you don't wanna marry. And everybody talk to you don’t want to marry. I: So you never take her out? A: You got to kinda get that thing sorted out, and everybody go to bed, don't like you neither. You know that, too. I: That's right. A: And some just go for the pass off time, some want something, and there you go. 'Course married life is a good life if you -- that you, you know. I: Now, how many kids have you got with your second wife? A: None. She got two boys by her first husband. And, no, we ain't got no kids. Too old for kids anyway, now. I: When is your birthday? A: Uh-h-h. [Pause for reflection.] In April. I: What year were you born? A: Ted! What's all that birth [inaudible] that tell, you know, you have to tell ‘em where you live there and who you live with and who you wore and all that stuff, and that's what they send back on the birth certificate. 'Cause, see -- [Slight glitch in tape] I: How have things changed for black people since you have experience, what you've experienced in coming where you come from up till now? How do you see things as having changed? Are they better or worse? Or what would it take to make it better? A: Well, they have changed, they're better. 'Course they could -- it's some improved in some areas, of course, they could be improved. I think that we need more people capable, give some of these leading public jobs in places. But his have changed, but it could improve some. A lot of times you couldn’t find nothing to put in the bag. I have left [pate] for my kids to eat, get what was there, and if they left anything I'd come by and get it. Oh, I've seen some tough days. I hate to say it, but I'm not lying, and I didn't steal—which there wasn't nothin' to steal, I don't guess there'd be anything. If anybody had anything they ain't said nothing. 'Course I didn't hunt nothing to steal. [Clicking noise] Uh-oh! … And something else I done – My wife said lot of times they'd Adell 14 buy them, says that I'm stingy and I'm too close. But I'm not too close. If you come through things and you know what ‘tis, and I said, well, if I ever make me some money, I'm gone save some of it. And you don't accumulate too much working for the other fellow. And if you can get you something that you can work yourself to make the money, what you make is yours. You don't have, you know -- I have done a little of that, what I said, I ain't done a whole lot of it but I've done a little of it. Now, you take that automobile there, three mo' new ones. Two new automobiles, two new trucks. I: Did you ever think when you were growing up you would have that? A: Well, no, I didn't. I didn't think I was gonna have that, but I said that if I ever lived I'd gotta have some of what somebody else has, you know, somethin'. I'd have me some of my own. I mean, it was -- and I didn't have nothing. I said I'd try to keep me somethin', I like something of my own. If the other fellow can get something, I can get a little something, too. And then that hard time come in Hoover days, it just made [dog fussing] [s.l. ‘they'd like me some’?] I: How did that affect you? Did that take any money from you, the Hoover days? The Depression? A: Didn't it take nothing from me! I didn't have none to take! I didn't have none! That's what I'm telling you now! Wasn't no money! I: So the Depression didn't even hurt you, did it? A: Yeah, it hurt me! I couldn't make nothing. Get out here and Hark some corn, 'taters, anything I could find. Talking about hurt a man! And if you’d asked a man for some money, fact he'd tell you for – [END OF SIDE 1] SIDE 2 BEGINS WITH ... Big Laughter by Ed. A: Where you come from? I want to ~now about you, now! I: So, you --- A: I want to know where you come from. I: Well, you know A: I want to know! I: I was born and raised in Buncombe County. A: You lived in Buncombe County. Well, where'd your folks come from? I: My dad was from Mitchell County, out in Altapass, and my mom was from Burke County. Adell 15 A: What was your daddy's name? I: Clark smith. A: Clark Smith. Well, he ought to have told you something. I: Yeah, he did. A: Did he tell you some of what I told you. I: Yeah. A: Well, all right, then. I: Yeah, it was rough, wasn't it. A: I know it was! Man, it was rough, I tell you. But some of the young folks need a little of his, what I went through, they need a little of it. We got a lot of the young folk wouldn't work no way. They been living off their mam and daddy, and if they didn't get it from them they took it from somebody. They need a little of this. It’s good experience for them. They need some more time. I: If you could change anything, what would you change? A: Hell, the first thing I'd change-- is that on, you got me on that thing? I: Um-hm. A: I don't want to say it the then. I don’t want to. [Laughter] I: Go ahead and say it. Go ahead and say it. A: No, you might put it on -- I: No, we'd straighten it out. Go ahead and say it. A: Well, you might put it on my back. [Lots of laughter from other person.] Need a president for one thing. I: Yeah, that's right. I agree. You said we need the change for president. A: But we need one. We need one. I: That’s the truth. Adell 16 A: We need a man up there that's gone be for all the people, not part of ‘em. And if we had a man up there, the first thing he need to do is quit pouring millions of dollars over yonder them other countries. Them folks ain't doing nothing but gettin' that money and splittin' it. I: That's right. A: And take care… if they ain't gone do right, let ‘em stay over there and they keep themselves over there, and quit buying all that stuff out yonder countries and let 'em buy the stuff what we got. But how you gone get it done. Killin' them folks over yonder after, you know, [he’s mumbling here, can’t make out the words]. Now, folks at home, they don't know nowhere else to go. Their own place! I: Did they drive them out of that? A: What you talking about?! And this -- the work to understand I get is the richest country there is, and they’re the poorest people they is in [dog noises in the background – can't make out the words]. I: 'Cause they ain't gettin' none of it. A: No, they ain't gettin' none of it' And they just keep pushing them back, pushin’ 'em back. And Reagan don’t want to have nothing to do with 'em. But he still say that he's trying to get just all the country right for everybody and he just has. I: What was law enforcement like when you were starting out with your family? If you needed the police, did… A: Well, I never did have no trouble with no law. I never did have no trouble with no law! And, of course, I used to know this to be the fact, that if you went down South Carolina, I don't know, it just -- it was -- well, it -- it didn't have to be a law if he’s white. And you said, “Mister Officer, will you tell me where so and so is?” Something like that. He wouldn't tell you a bit o' thing. Now, if you say Captain, he’d go four miles to show you. That just -- and don't know why is that. He wanted to be called Captain. He didn't want to be called Mister. I: What'd they call you? A: He call you Nigger, as far as that goes. Yeah! He call you Nigger in a minute. [Chuckles] He called you a nigger. I: How did that make you feel when he would say that? Did you ever say anything back to him? A: Well, no, no, I didn't say nothing back, but you know a man don't like it. They don't like to be called a nigger. He don't like it. And you don't have to go all the way to South Carolina. They call you nigger here. They call you a nigger here. 'Course they -- they're some better than Adell 17 they used to be. Ah, my grandson up there, you know, he's the one got all them chauffeurs, you know? I: Um-hm. Tell me about him. A: Ah, he went to Charlotte, was all, and they beat -- they beat -- they beat them boys, and he say he ain't never been called so many “niggers” -- that's bad, you know what I mean. I: [Chuckle.] A: Called us nigger and everything. I: And that's just recently, wasn't it? A: Yeah! Right. Week before last. I: And this is 1987. A: Right. Listen. Well, now, that’s --some of 'em is gonna do that, from now on. You may go out here with an old white guy -- and you an him -- you think he's all right till you meet up with some more Whites, and he'll lie to ‘em, say, “Why,” say, “don’t bother him, he’s a good ol’ nigger.” That’s just… I: The way they think of you. A: The way they's raised. And used to be, if you hire a man they need you, somebody to work. And if there was a white woman worked in here, they didn't hire no nigger man to work in there. Did you know that? They didn't hire no nigger to work in there where no white woman was! I: Weren't they scared she'd jump on him or something? A: No, they just didn't want you close to her. But now the thing change. If you qualify for the job, they'll hire you. 'Course they ain't many niggers in it; they ought to be some more colored folks in some higher places than it is. I don’t know whether Reagan, how many -- I: You can count them all on one finger. A: Yeah, how many has he put in. Everything he hired is some of them old rich people from up -- his bunch. He ain't pullin' no -- ah -- Civil Rights has took a back seat since he been in there. Steada goin’ forward, it’s oozin’ back. I: What did you think of Dr. King? Adell 18 A: He’s a fine man. He the best that ever been. Some of 'em say-- ol' Jesse Helms say he’s a Communist. I'd like to catch him out at night, and he didn't know me. I'd like to catch him out in the woods somewhere. I’d whip him, I’d put something on him. I: I'd help you. A: I think so. ‘Cause he really do hate colored people. I: Why is it that it's always been that way? Why do you think it's always been that way, that they always hated us and we never bothered to spend the time of day thinkin' about ‘em? A: Uh, well, I don’t know, really, I don't why they feel that way. Only different it is than -- onliest difference it is in a white man and you and me -- he was borned on this side and they brought, they bought us out of Africa. Right? They brought 'em over here on boats like cattle. Right? They in other words they were sold to these people. That's the onliest different -- the color. Just skin deep. And a white man, he knows that if he'll give a colored person a half a chance he'll get hold o' something. Now, if you made, or either our race of people for the whole, made half year-round what white folks make across the globe, we'd be in power. 'Cause them rascals make big money, and they keep black people out of them good-paying jobs. Look at all them Congressmen up there now. I see where now they're trying to get something started on Andy Young. You see that on television. I didn't understand, I didn't get it all. I: Well, they're getting something started on all this [of us?]… [Interviewer.]
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