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Interview with Pam Degraffenreid, transcript

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  • Pam Degraffenreid 1 Interviewee: Pam Degraffenreid Interviewer: Jackson Speir Interview Date: 2019 Interview Location: Cullowhee, NC Interview Length: 28:49 Jackson Speir: Do you know you are being recorded? Pam Degraffenreid: Yes, I do. JS: Do you know it will be posted online? PD: Yes, I do. JS: Do you give consent? PD: I do. So, the first thing I want to ask you is where were you born? PD: I was born in Charlotte, North Carolina. JS: So… being born there how did that impact you living there and growing up? PD: It gave me a strong sense of family and community although I didn’t realize it at the time. We were so close knit and we lived all in the same communities so my friends were my cousins and my aunts and uncles and some neighbors, but neighbors looked after us. So very strong sense of community and family and it also gave me a different perspective on city life verses small town life like we have up here. So, I had the best of both worlds. I’ve been able to enjoy both and there’s pros and cons to both and so I’m fortunate. JS: Which do you enjoy more? The big city life or the small-town life? PD: You know, when I was younger most definitely big city life but now as I’ve aged most definitely small-town living. JS: I like small town living. PD: I know. I know me too. Big city life… I go to Charlotte these days and I just want to cringe, and I can’t wait to come back home but… it’s how it goes. JS: What high school did you go to? PD: I went to Myers Park in Charlotte, North Carolina? JS: Did you play any sports or have any…? PD: I sure did not. (laughter) I had no interest in sports whatsoever in high school. JS: Did you do any like extracurricular activities? Pam Degraffenreid 2 PD: I didn’t because at the time we were going through integration so in order for me to participate in any extracurricular activities especially after school we would have to have transportation either home or back over… you know. And this was way across town. Probably an hour or more across town so no I didn’t get to participate. But I was such an introvert I didn’t even attempt to participate believe it or not. JS: Do you have any brothers or sisters? PD: I do. I have three brothers and one sister? JS: Are they older? Younger? PD: One is older. I have an older sister and all my brothers are younger. Yes. JS: What do they do? PD: Well, my… I have two siblings that are full blooded siblings and I have two stepbrothers. So, for the two full blooded siblings one is retired, and one works for a automobile company. He’s a sales representative for them. The others… one of my stepbrothers works for the state as a police officer and I’m not sure what the other one is doing at this point in time. JS: Where did you go to college at? PD: I went to college at Western Carolina University. I’m a Catamount. (laughter) JS: Catamount for life. PD: Catamount for life. That’s right. JS: What did you major in? PD: I majored in business and general management. JS: I’m guessing that helped you a little bit on this. PD: Oh, it absolutely prepared me for this job. I’m one of the few graduates that actually work in my field. So many graduates go through college and never work in their field, so I don’t know. I guess I’m fortunate that I actually do something that I went to college to prepare to do. So, it’s been good. It’s been a good experience. JS: How has Western changed since you’ve been here and now? PD: I guess the major change will be the enrollment. My goodness. When I came in, I think possibility there were about 3,000, maybe less than 4,000 students on campus and now we’re up to 11,000 and probably will hit 12 very soon. So, it’s almost tripled in enrollment growth which has changed a lot of the things that we do on campus and the campus itself has completely transitioned from when I started here with all the new buildings and all they have… We’re a pedestrian campus now… offer so many different programs. We have online programs now. It’s really evolved into a much more I guess attractive university for students which is good. It’s a great campus. JS: What made you want to come here? Pam Degraffenreid 3 PD: That’s interesting because I came here sight unseen believe it or not. I wanted to go to college and I didn’t want to go to college at home and my brother in law’s sister graduated from Western and that’s basically all I knew and just thought that maybe if she did… if she went to Western and she liked it I’ll go there too. That’s what I did. So, I didn’t have any recruiters come around saying come to Western. It was really different back then. I was excited to come. It was a bold move but when you’re eighteen you make those bold moves. I would never do that (laughter) right now. JS: What were some activities you did as like a kid or in college or high school? PD: As a kid, we didn’t have Xboxes or iPads or all that good stuff you guys have now, so we basically made our own fun. We played kickball, dodgeball, hopscotch, you know we did all that… marbles, some of my best memories are of catching lightning bugs outside late at night with my brother. We loved doing that in the summer months and you know it was so different back then. We didn’t have to worry about if you were outside somebody kidnapping us. We didn’t have to worry about any… being shot you know. It’s quite different now. We just lived such a wholesome and fun life. We didn’t have… and I wish the kids today had some of that… or could live that way for a week or so just to enjoy it but times have changed so we just have to adjust. But I also have fun memories of going to New York in the summers. My family was in New York, so we always went to New York for the summers and we had a great time. We got to see all the sites, Statue of Liberty, Long Island, and there was nothing like having a New York hot dog or a pizza from the trucks on the street corners. That was awesome. So yeah. Lots of good times. JS: Did you have any jobs growing up in high school or college? PD: I did in high school. Believe it or not I went door to door selling encyclopedias. That was my first job. I did. Once again how history has changed. Never once thought about being kidnapped or going into someone’s home and being afraid. We just went door to door selling these encyclopedias. And had a great time with my best friend… it was my first job. And then for college I went to work in a factory with my aunt in New York. As I mentioned we would go up to New York for the summers and she got me a job that summer and we would travel on the subway all the way over to Manhattan, NY and I worked in a UNICEF factory on an assembly line packing greeting cards so needless to say that experience definitely made me want to come back and finish my degree because that was not the lifestyle I wanted to lead or the job I wanted for any other moment other than that one. So, it was a good thing. It worked out. It was a good experience though. It makes you appreciate a college degree. JS: For sure. What did your parents do for a living? PD: Well, my mom was a teacher, a second-grade teacher and my dad who I didn’t know well but I did know he was a postal worker. JS: Did that affect what you wanted to do when you grew up? PD: Well, I guess it affected what I didn’t want to do. (laughter) I grew up and I absolutely did not want to be in a classroom all day with twenty plus little kids, but I admired what she did. It gave me a different perspective on teachers and how important they are for them to take the time every day to spend with Pam Degraffenreid 4 our children because I could never do that job but I think it’s one of the hardest jobs in the country and we should respect them and we should definitely be thankful to them for what they do each day. JS: Deserve a little more than? PD: Yes, they deserve to be appreciated. JS: Keeping up with kids like me all the time. (laughter) PD: You aren’t that hard to keep up with are you, Jackson? JS: I try not to be. PD: You know I admire them… admired her because you know when she did have children with different personalities she always catered her curriculum towards those kids strengths and weaknesses. You don’t get to do that these days. Everything is based on teaching to… teaching the kids to prepare them to pass those tests. You don’t get that individual attention so I hate that for kids again but that’s the way it is so we just have to accept it and adjust JS: It’s all about passing that last test. PD: It’s all about passing that test and that’s why she actually retired because her strength or her joy was just seeing the kids that came in and they weren’t quite on that level they should be. She would go find different activities to bring them up to that level. So, I really admired her, and I wish we could have more of that, but we just don’t have that option these days. The teachers don’t have… it’s not their fault. They just don’t have it. JS: They’ll get fired if they don’t PD: They do. If they don’t pass…Their kids… a certain percentage of their students I guess don’t pass the test. I think it’s horrible. JS: My mom she teaches at Fairview right now. She’s like… she does not like the way some things go sometimes but she has to do it. PD: They have to do it. Requirements… state requirements. And if they don’t yes, they will be let go and that’s just sad. I hate they ever brought those tests into the curriculum but they’re there. JS: Our families have known each other for a while and I just wanted to know how you met Mut? PD: I met him on campus here my freshman year. He was a senior and I don’t know we… back then everybody knew everybody so it’s just, no sooner that you came on campus, especially the football players were always introducing themselves to the new girls. So yeah. So, I met him almost… as soon as I step foot on campus and we just became very good friends and eventually you know of course it led to something else. Yeah. He was so nice and kind but yes, I met him here on campus. JS: So, sports are a big part of your family’s life. So how has that affected because I know when my mom going to sporting events every week. How has that? PD: It’s challenging but rewarding at the same time. I mean… and when I look back on it now because as you can see, observing your mom, we do everything because the dad’s not there or the husbands aren’t Pam Degraffenreid 5 there so we take care of the kids, we raise the kids we take care of the house, so we get… so we make sure everything’s done in the house. We take care of the cars. We take care of everything. JS: Life of a coach’s wife. PD: Life of a coach’s wife. But it’s so rewarding because the excitement of going to the games and winning and you know planning trips. It builds such a sense of commitment because the focus is on… everybody comes together and are united for one focus - to make that program successful. And I still have friends in…. special friends from those days. We’re still friends to this day. So, the impact it has on you is just awesome. I would recommend it for everyone that had the opportunity to experience it, absolutely. JS: It’s really rewarding. PD: It is rewarding and it’s so much fun. But you know going to the games and routing and cheering and although the losses are so hard the wins are just awesome. The wins make up for it. JS: So, your daughter played at UNC. So how was it like with her being in a big spotlight there at Chapel Hill. PD: It was a wonderful experience and we were so proud of her because for so many years… I mean people still talk about when she was on campus and all of them would see when she… when they saw her was with that basketball beneath her arm. She carried it everywhere with her and we did all the AAU circuit and all the traveling and we would have to take her because there weren’t any programs out here at the time that could help her advance so we had to drive back and forth to Asheville two and three times a week. It was hard especially since I had to do it since my husband was coaching so… but we did it and it paid off. The hard work… once again being a part of sports shows that hard work and commitment does pay off. JS: She definitely left her legacy. People still talk about her at Smoky (laughter) PD: Yeah. She’s still involved in basketball. She’s a coach now at UNC Greensboro. I’m especially proud of that because she wanted to follow her dad’s footsteps because she saw the impact he had on so many lives over his years of coaching so that’s what she wants to do and so does my son. They didn’t want to follow my career but ok. (laughter) I accepted that and to be honest if I had to choose for them, it would be coaching. The impact is just enormous. JS: There’s a lot of joy coming from coaching. You just see those kids. Little eighteen-year olds that are immature and then just grow into strong men and women. PD: Yes, they do. The transformation is awesome. JS: Did she play overseas? PD: She did. She played for two years overseas and she loved it. And if I hadn’t convinced her to come back and start her master’s degree here, she’d probably still be playing. Sometimes I look back and you make those calls at that time and you never know the impact later in life but I think it was a blessing because when she came back, she went to… she came here for her master’s and she had all that time Pam Degraffenreid 6 with her dad before he passed so had she had not done that she wouldn’t of had that time. And she’s still involved in coaching… I mean the sport so that’s good. JS: Did you ever go see one of her games? PD: No. Not overseas but we could see the videos sometimes. Yeah. We were able to watch the videos of her playing overseas. It’s quite different. Yes. Yes. And the living experience is one she’ll never forget because it is so different because you know she came from having everything at her finger tips and then she had to go over there and the quality of life is quite different. JS: Where was she? PD: She was in Israel for one of her… for one team. And I can’t remember where she went before. But both experiences were quite rewarding and life changing. JS: Especially different from Cullowhee, USA. PD: To Israel? Absolutely (laughter) No comparison. But what an experience to have. JS: So little Al? PD: Little Al’s a different individual. He’s so much like his dad though. Personality wise and… JS: He’s always been nice. Me and him are close. PD: Really close. JS: He’s always been nice to me whenever I come down to the football field, we’re jumping all over each other. PD: He’s hilarious. He’s just like his dad. He’s just loves to make somebody smile. That’s what my husband used to do. You see them have a bad day like he’s going to ask about what’s going on. JS: Whenever you see Little Al See you see a little smile on your face. PD: Yes. My husband always brought smiles to everyone’s faces. I think he thought that was his role in life, to make you smile. JS: To make people happy. PD: I think so. And I think Al’s following in those footsteps. And in his coaching footsteps because one day I think he wants to be a coach. And I think that he’ll actually achieve a greater or have a greater career than his dad once he really finds a place and becomes a coach. JS: It’s all about luck and getting the right opportunities. PD: Yes, that’s what it’s all about. JS: Coaching football is a crazy occupation. PD: Yes, it is. JS: Very unstable. Pam Degraffenreid 7 PD: Yeah, very unstable but JS: But when you find that stable spot its nice. PD: It’s nice. It’s nice. My husband was here for seventeen years and he didn’t want to go anywhere. He had an opportunity to go to NC State. It’s like no. This is where I want to be. So, when you find a stable place and you love you need to stay. Because the grass is not always greener on the other side. JS: Expectations are higher at bigger schools and they can fire people like that. PD: And will. JS: And won’t think twice. PD: And they don’t care if you won twenty games last year. If you lose twenty this year? JS: You’re gone. PD: Well, that’s the nature of the sport. That’s the nature of the sport. JS: So, you’re the director of the bookstore so what are your day-to-day activities? PD: Basically, I’m the decision maker here. I make the majority of the decisions as far as merchandising, appearance of the store, staffing, and all that is based on we have a mission to meet. And basically, we are here to satisfy customers and provide the products that they need to… for their curriculum. So, we… all decisions are based on that. Having the merchandise when they need it and providing that customer experience that will make them want to return. JS: So, you won the UNC Staff Assembly Leadership Award? PD: I did. JS: And what is that award exactly? PD: That award is based on someone going over and beyond their current job duties to make an impact on state employee’s lives. And I was the staff senate chair here in 2014 and part of being the staff senate chair is that you’re also on another committee that brings together seventeen state campuses and so when I went on that committee it was such a rewarding experience and all I wanted to do was more to help our state employees to let their voices be heard and so I really dug in and I really was so committed to doing different things to making sure our voices were heard. We did surveys. We did… just proposals, resolutions. We did a lot of things that year I was involved in a majority of them. And so, believe it or not it was the first award I had ever won and to win it at the state level that was just… So many mixed emotions went through me. I was like oh my goodness. Did I really just win this award? And based on what the award was… so Thomas W. Roth, I don’t know if you noticed or not, was the president of the seventeen-state campus system and so very well respected. And so, to win the award in his honor it was just amazing. It was an amazing feeling and I have it up here. You can see it up there. I got the award up. I see it every day that I come in and it just takes me back to the good days. But yeah. Very rewarding. Very excited. Very humble feelings came through. It was amazing. JS: Did that help you or motivate you to improve even more upon what you’re doing? Pam Degraffenreid 8 PD: Oh yes. I mean it definitely motivated me to do more. And I’m still involved with that committee and we do a lot of good things behind the scenes that people really don’t know about but yes it did most definitely motivate me to do more. To want to do more. JS: From what I read you started the African American alumni society at Western? PD: I did. JS: So, what made you want to start that? PD: Again, because I’m such an advocate for the little guy who sits or the lady that sits in an office and who doesn’t have an avenue for their voices to be heard. So that’s how I felt. There were some incidents that had happened on our campus and they happen on every campus so I’m not just going to say it was only on our campus that these things happened. But there were just some situations that I thought could have been handled differently and given the African American students, faculty and staff voices and I didn’t feel that that happened. So, I thought well… and then we were declining in enrollment and I felt that these incidents were probably related to the decline in enrollment so I thought it would be nice to have more support particularly for the students so when they do voice an issue if possibly the administration’s not listen to them maybe they can listen to a different group of students. Past students. So, we formed it. It is in place. We are doing some good things. We have alums that come up to talk to our students. We have so many African American alums that are doing awesome things. I mean their achievements are so remarkable. You just wonder and then you knew them in college. Really, they did that? But I thought it would be so nice if our students could see their achievements. And to have that connection back to alums I think is just so important. So that’s why I started it and a lot of the alums felt that it was a worthy cause and so they got on board and we created it. I hope it will stay strong even when I leave. Because even though nobody believes me one day I really am leaving (laughter). And I just hope that that society will remain a part of this campus and support to students, faculty, and staff. JS: Having alums that have been successful is huge. PD: It’s huge. When you see that you’ll like ok that could be me. That’s just a feeling that until you see it you don’t have it. You don’t even know about it. So now they’re all starting to come back and start to interact with the students and yes. JS: When my dad’s recruiting sometimes he’ll point out like circumstances where they had kids that came from nothing and got a master’s degree and are extremely successful now. It’s not just about football. It’s a great campus too. PD: It’s a great campus. I mean and all of us are doing wonderful… like I said remarkable. They have some remarkable achievements. They own companies. Some are millionaires and I just felt like our students needed to see that connection. So, their getting it now and I’m glad they have those connections. JS: How has Jackson County and this area affected you and your family? PD: I think in a good way. I mean its… you know there’s pros and cons to every area. But for my kids they love the fact that they grew up in Jackson County. Personally, I would not have wanted to grow up in Jackson County. I like living here now but personally I’m still glad I grew up in Charlotte because I had Pam Degraffenreid 9 the two perspectives but my son… my kids love living in Jackson County. And they still have friends now that they still talk to and they still have relationships with from being here in Jackson County. Their best friends are some of their friends from Jackson County because it’s such a close-knit community. JS: Everybody knows everybody. PD: Everybody knows everybody. Especially you know you’re a coach’s kid and you know all the eyes are on you. JS: Yes. PD: That’s good and bad. JS: Keeps you out of trouble. PD: Keeps you out of trouble because I know your dad. I’ll make sure he knows. Yeah. Al got that all the time. (laughter) But it was a good thing because they wanted to see them succeed and they wanted to let them know that they needed to set the example. But sometimes it takes away from you being you. JS: I’m always me. PD: That’s good. Stay you. Don’t change JS: Is there anything else you want to say? PD: No. I want to say thank you for allowing me to participate in your history project. I really appreciate that you thought enough of me that you asked me to participate. I’m honored. And so, what are do you want to do one day? Do you want to coach? Have you thought about it? JS: I want to coach football but if that goes south, I want to major in business. I feel like I could do some stuff with a business degree. PD: I love my business degree and I love this position. Of course, my business degree prepared me for it, but I love it. I’ve been in it over thirty years and if I had to go back and change I wouldn’t. I would still choose the same major. JS: I want to follow in dad’s footsteps. Try to be a football coach but sometimes things don’t work out. It’s always good to have a back-up plan. PD: it’s always good to have a plan b. JS: A plan c sometimes. PD: Absolutely. (laughter)
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