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Interview with Leona Clinton

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  • Leona Clinton WESTERN NORTH CAROLINA TOMORROW BLACK ORAL HISTORY PROJECT Interviewee: Leona Clinton Interviewer: Lorraine Crittenden Date: April 27, 1986 County: Swain Length: 87:14 Interviewer: Miss Leona did your family always live in North Carolina? Clinton: This is the time when my mother lived in Tennessee, and she didn't like it very much she was staying there, maybe six months. I: So both your mother and father came, were born in North Carolina and always stayed here except for that short time? C: Uh-huh. I: Alright. Now Miss Leona, I need for you to trace your family tree as far back as you can remember. If you remember your grandmother or grandfather's names; if not, just start with your mother and father. C: Well now, I knew one of my grandmothers but I don't know on which side that’s the reason…Sally was her name. I: Her full name was Sally what? C: Was a Dehart. I: Your mother's mother was a Dehart? C: Yeah. I: Okay, now do you know how she got the last name of Dehart? Your mother's mother. C: No. I: Was your mother's mother a slave? C: I don't know. I really don't know. I: You haven't heard anyone say? C: No. I: Her name was Sally Dehart? C: Yes. I: Do you remember anything about your father's family? C: I don't remember anything about him. I: Do you remember your mother saying anything about any of family members were slaves? C: No. I: Okay. Just as far back as you can remember, because I'm sure your mother told you some stories as a child. C: Well, I tell you, one thing -- all my mother told me was the way she was raised, 'cause mother had a hard way. You know, about life and that. 'Cause you see she was give away. Her mother did not raise her. It was some woman, I don't know what kind of woman she was, where she took children like that, anyway and she was named Aunt Mary Hearse and she raised my mother from seven years old and my mother married at the age of 13. I: Your mother got married at 13 years old? That was quite young. C: Yeah. I: How old was she when she had her first child? C: Well, she must have been quite young because you take, she said even before she got married, you know back then they played with rag dolls. I: I did not understand… C: I said they had rag dolls. Mother said she would have to go and get her old rag doll and dress it, you know, before she went to get married. I: She did? C: Yeah. I: Do you remember where she got married? C: She must have got married up there in Franklin somewhere. I: In Franklin? C: Uh-huh. I: Do you know if the man was a lot older than she was or about the same age? C: I don't know. I guess my daddy was older. I: So when she married him, did they start living together as a family? C: Yeah. I: They started right then? C: Yeah, she was thirteen years old and I just imagine my oldest sister, probably she had her when she was 14 or something like that. She said this woman what raised her was so mean to her, she did not allow her any privileges or anything. All she knowed, momma did not know anything about doing housework, she did not have any education. Now she knowed how to wash and iron. Now she didn't know too much about ironing, but she knowed how to wash, and work out in the fields, and back then they used scrub brooms, and you know, they scrubbed floors and they did not have Linoleum and stuff like that on the floors. They would scrub the floors and rinse 'em good, the floors she'd say they would be white enough look like to eat off. I: My goodness! Let's stop here a moment. [Blank area in tape] C: And she this woman learned her how to cook, you know old time, ‘cause mother could cook. At that time they cooked on the fireplace. I: On the fireplace? C: Uh-huh. And they had an oven and they you know, of course you don't know, but this oven, you could bake bread in it, you know, you could just cook in it and they had fireplaces and you shovel the coals out and set the ovens on it. We had one when we first moved from Tennessee. We first lived out on the Jackson line. I: On the Jackson line? C: Uh-huh. I wasn't seven years old. The house had but one room. I: How many children were in that one room? C: It was just my sister, the one that died, Kate, myself, and Clyde. That's all. We come from Tennessee to here. I: Who had come home from Tennessee? C: My momma. I: Oh, she had been in Tennessee for a while? C: Yeah, but she left Franklin, you see, and went down there and she didn't like it down there. That's how come us here, on account of Aunt Jane Dehart. I: Aunt Jane? C: Aunt Jane come down there. She cooked down there. I: Where? A place called Jackson Line. C: No, in Merriville, Tennessee. I: In Merriville, Tennessee? C: Yeah. I: So your mother cooked for, what, three years? C: Well she found out you see, Mother said that she knowed that she had a half-sister that she had never seen, Aunt Jane until then. And they just fell in love and Aunt Jane, that's how come we're here. I don't like here. I never have liked it here. I: You've never have liked it here? C: I was raised here, honey, but I ain't never liked it here. I: How long did you stay in Tennessee? C: I guess we stayed there about five months. I: About five months? And then your mother decided to move? C: Yeah, she didn't like it down there. I: She didn't like there. C: You see, the boys none of them used to work and there was no work down there for her and the boys, you know, well, I don't know what kind of work you call it, but anyway, at that time they was building, you know, these new houses. I: Company houses? C: Yeah. I: Company houses for the plant in Merriville? C: Uh-huh. I: Your brothers helped build those houses? C: They cut ditches I: They cut the sewage lines? C: Yes. Momma didn’t like that. You see, some of them, it was a boy from Murphy got [carved up] down there and one boy from Franklin. I: What do you mean “carved up”? C: You know, got covered up in a ditch with dirt. I: Oh, covered up in a ditch. C: Uh-huh. And Mother didn’t like it down there and Aunt Jane come. Aunt Jane could cook, and of course you know that, but she did. She worked in a hotel and she told Mother she was going to come here and she was going to get her a place to come and she did. We come and lived with Aunt Jane and Aunt Jane then lived up over that store, (Dan Ridge’s store). [Maybe] I: Your Aunt Jane lived in Tennessee too? C: She lived here, but Aunt Jane went everywhere to cook. I: She was cooking in Tennessee? C: Yeah. I: And then she came to Bryson City, Aunt Jane. C: Aunt Jane lived here. This was her home here. I: Oh, and she was gone over there to work? C: Yeah, to work. Uh-huh. I: Okay. Now after she finished working at the hotel she came back, did she come back? C: She came back and got mother. She told mother she was going to get her a house and she got my oldest sister. My oldest sister, was the first one, Sally, she was the first one to come out from down there and she went working for Sam Dehart. I: Sam Dehart out there on the farm? C: Yeah. But at that time they lived up here in town. I: Sam Dehart lived here in town? C: Yeah. I: Now they were an affluent, a rich white family, right? C: Yeah, dad and Sally worked there and we stayed with Aunt Jane for a while and we got this little ole one room place way out on Jackson Line. It had a fireplace. I: That was quite a way out from Bryson city. C: I know it, and honey, I will tell you the truth, I had never went to school until I went here. And the first time I ever went to school, they had school in the church because at that time it wasn't colored. I: How old were you the first time you went to school? C: Oh, I guess I was about probably seven or eight. I: Seven or eight? C: Uh-huh. Cause I tell my brother, he stayed down there and worked in that place in Tennessee and he come home and he was sick. You see he went through a lot of exposure down there. I: He was under a lot of exposure? C: Yeah. Down there working in that ditch. At that time I wasn't eleven years old and we moved out from out the Jackson Line and moved in on the upper end of town and Mother said they used to live up there in that same house. Uncle Johnny and them, in the upper end of town. It was up, you know, up there where you go to Deep Creek. I: Do you know what that area is called up there around Deep Creek? C: It ain't far. I: That’s out of town too. That’s a pretty good way out of town. C: You know, don’t they have a Coca-Cola plant up there somewhere? I: Yes, it is still there. C: But this is different. What I'm talking about is across the railroad. I: Oh, that's not far at all. C: You know just across the railroad from where we live. The house had three rooms to it. I: It had three rooms? C: Yeah and my brother come in sick and I was the oldest and I had to stay home and take care of him till he died. That's where he died at. I: What did he die from, Miss Leona? C: They said he had, you know, tuberculosis or something. I: TB? Tuberculosis? C: Something like that, of course, like I say, them times doctors didn't know, like a lot of them don't know now. [Laughter] They don't. I: You don't have much faith in doctors? C: No, honey, I ain't none in 'em. They will kill you if you mess with them long enough. Honey, I done been dead if I had messed with doctors. I live on faith. Let's see now, what was I saying about my brother? I: You were saying that you were keeping your brother when he died. C: Yeah and that is the reason that I didn't get enough school. I: Which brother was this now? C: This was Mack McKinley. I: Mack McKinley. C: Uh-huh. He was seventeen. I: Seventeen? How long did you go to school before you had to stop and take care of him? C: Well, I hadn't went to school long 'cause we walked from Jackson Line, you know, to school, they didn't have school like they have now, you know. They didn't have no nine months school. I: Miss Leona that must be a good eight or ten miles. C: It's a long way, I know that, but you know it wasn't no concrete road and things like it is now. The road was muddy and dusty, and mother would come to town to wash. I: She would come to town to wash for Sam Dehart? C: For everybody. I: For everybody? C: For everybody. That's what she done, you know. I: You mentioned Sam Dehart earlier. Now who worked for him in your family? C: Sally. I: Sally, who is your oldest… C: Oldest sister. I: Now, was he living in Bryson City then? C: Who? I: Sam Dehart? C: Yeah. This is his home. I: Now what did she do? C: You know, she did the house work. I: She did the housework? C: Yeah, Sally cooked, you know. I: Now did she live there with them or did she... C: No. She stayed with Aunt Jane at that time at night, you know. That was the first year that Aunt Jane got her that job, when she come back so she could help us, you know. [Clears throat] I got a bad cough, I tell you that. You see, I got a goiter on the inside and they been wanting to take this goiter out. You know I had a brother, he had one. George, he had one and his got pretty big, and I remember, I had two operations and I ain't going to have another one. So that is how come us down here, but you know I don't know anything about Franklin. I: So this is really your home as far as… C: I was raised here. But oh honey, Lord, I don’t know… I do know where I would like to be if I could work, you know. You see when I was in Baltimore... I: You lived in where? C: Baltimore. I: Maryland? C: Uh-huh I: You like that? C: Yeah. I like Baltimore. It's more like country. Country, you know. Like I worked all the time I was up there. You know, me and my husband. I: You and your husband worked in Baltimore? C: Yeah, he was working there. We was just on the manner of being poorly anyway. I: You enjoyed living in Baltimore? C: Yeah, I enjoyed living in Baltimore. I'd stay anywhere I'm working. I just feel like if I had, if I was able to have about two days you know. I: Would you like to work now? C: Oh yeah, child, I'm going to tell you one thing, most specially way it is now. You see everything is going down so bad here and I can't do anything about it and I'm not going to. I: What are you talking about, things going down so fast? C: Honey, the old house has gone down and everything is so messy and gummy. You take, sissy, you never would believe it would have been like this out here. But there is nobody to do anything. I: You can't do any yard work? C: Honey, I can't do anything. I can't even clean the house. You take… I: Is there someone to clean it for you now? C: No. Honey as nasty as it is here. I had a boy to come and maybe get me some painting done. I thought I was going to get my floors fixed. ‘Cause you take these floors; Bea…but she is in Myrtle Beach now. You don’t know her. I: What was her name? C: Bea. I: Bea? C: Beatrice. I: I don’t think I have met her. C: Well, your mother knows her, and I know that your grandmother knows her, ‘cause Bea’s she’s getting up there in the 80’s. I: Is she related to you? C: She is my niece. I: She’s your niece? C: Uh-huh. My sister, Erie is her daughter. See, she died in New York. I: So you have a sister that lived in New York? C: Oh yeah. I: Did any of your other family members leave Bryson City and go other places to work? C: Oh yeah. That is the reason they don’t want to stay here. I: They had to leave here. Couldn't they find work here? C: Well it is like I tell Tommy, Tommy went with me. He didn't get through high school. He stayed with me in Greensboro. I: You lived in Greensboro? C: Oh yeah. I lived down there eight years. I: Eight years? C: Uh-huh. I: That's a nice place. C: I like it down there pretty good. But I wish I’d had a family in town. You know I had so much trouble. I: You think you had troubles because you lived there? C: Yeah. I lived down there for 8 years I worked down there. [Tape readjusted] I: What kind of work did you do down there? C: Housework. I: Housework? C: Yeah. I cleaned house. I like to clean. I: Well, it is evident because of the lovely home you have. C: Honey, I would have had, you know what I mean to say, see I never care nothing about a whole lot but I always did want a good substantial place. One thing about all the reason this is out here, reason we built this, my baby sister and me built this for mother. My mother, you see, she helped work all her life to raise us and she come down and you take out there where I were raised at now, that was the Will Dehart place. I: That was whose place? C: Will Dehart. I: Will Dehart? C: Yeah. They give mother, said that was mother’s home as long she lived. You see, mother was a Dehart too, you know. Some of the white people recognized that. I: Now is Will Dehart her brother? C: No. He’s a white man. Sam Dehart and all of them, you know. I: So they said she could live in this house? C: Live there around where we was raised. For as long as she lived. I: And did you and your sister decide to build this house? C: Well, now around the old place where we used to live you can't never tell where any house been there now. It is just right around the road there. You know they have done got a road there right across from Ingles. Right across the road there. I: Well, that's right across the road. I can see Ingles from here. C: I know it. You know where that road and all round there, that used to be our house, six room house, that was where I was raised at. I: Oh. C: And we tried to buy that place and they wouldn't sell it to us. I: Who wouldn't sell it to you? C: Dehart's. I: Will Dehart? C: Will Dehart, Will Dehart. I: Wouldn't sell? C: Wouldn’t sell the land after he died. You see, he had a boy, named Coleman. I: Coleman? C: Uh-huh. We tried to get it but he wouldn’t sell it. Said no, it was his Aunt Minnie’s long as she lived. Well you know, I said we might have to stay here you know even, you know, after mother passed or something. And so we tacked these planks together ‘cause mother was getting old and the old house was falling down, and my sister, Ann, Tommy’s mother, see she brought this here. I: So who did she buy this land from? C: Roland Thomas. I: What was his name? C: Roland Thomas. I: Sold this to her? C: Yeah. And my mother didn’t want to come out here ‘cause she didn’t like it but after the old house was falling down out there I didn’t know anything about fixing it, so my mother told my sister Ann, “I don’t see what you all are going to build out there.” I said, “You know I wouldn’t tack a plank upon nobody’s property without a deed” and she said, “well, if that is what is you, and she give us the deed.” You know all the reason we did, I wanted Mother to come and stay with me in Greensboro. I had her down there to the doctor. She was under my doctor down there. But Mother didn’t like being around a lot of people. I: She didn't like being around a whole lot of people? C: You know, a lot of us don't. I: Do what? C: A lot of us don't like to be around a lot of people. So we just built this up to have, to have a nice house, you know. But I'm happy, ‘cause I'll tell you the reason why. They all enjoyed it, you know, all of them was here. You take my brother, Jesse, he came in from Kentucky, he and his wife. They all enjoyed it. Didn't look like much. Nobody would ever thought this place would look like this. And a lot times I sit here by myself and I think, well, I am happy. And there's never been none of them died here but Mother. Ann died in Sylva. I: Did she? Was she in the hospital then? C: Uh-huh. And Kay died up on the hill. I: Was that Swain County Hospital? C: Yes. George died up there. I: So your mother died in this house? C: Yeah. Jesse died in Asheville. I: Was he in the hospital there too? C: Yeah. And I've just stayed here, honey, I sometime I get ready to cook, you know I eat all the time. My food don't do me any good and then I don't never have half the time what I like. I ain't supposed to eat what I like. I: Because of your ulcer. C: Honey, I like fried stuff. I ate some fried chicken and honestly I have been sick for two weeks and nobody would believe I've been as sick as I was, here by myself. I: Did you call anyone? C: No, honey I just toughed it out, you know the Lord takes care of me. And last night I felt sick. Honey, oh, I was so sick! Yesterday morning I got up. I thought, well, I have got to go to the store, I either go Thursday, you know, or Friday. Then people come here. All they do, I give them my money… I: What people are you referring to? C: Folks, you know, this ole boy he's was going to paint for me some. See, I don't know when he is coming. He might come by through here, I don't know and you know, and stop here and I ain't got nothin' done and they say he is going do it, so I say I don't care and this woman, she come, I believe honest to God she’s going to and she is too old to come alone. But you know the old women, that’s one reason, honey I always honey [tape tear up] I: Did any of family members have the opportunity for education? C: Yeah. You take some of them, honey, you know, like my nephews and niece... I: But I mean your brothers and sisters? C: Well, you take Jesse, he could read you know. I: He could read? C: Uh-huh. And Ann could read. I: But, most of the[m] didn’t have any higher education than the seventh grade or what grade? C: No. They didn’t. I don’t guess any of them that I know of was that high, you know back then they didn’t like the school and they didn’t teach. I: Oh, I see. So you don't think that school went as high as the seventh grade when you went to school? C: Well, I know it did when I was in school. I: But not where your older brothers went? C: No. I: Well would you say your family had adequate money or were times hard for you, or what? C: Well times were hard for us, I mean for us, us last young ones here, we was raised here, ‘cause my mother, you know, she just work. Sally, she just work, they didn't make nothing. When I started working I started working, for Roland Thomas. You know I got a dollar and half a week. I: A dollar and a half a week? How many days a week did you go? C: I went six. I: Six days a week? What time of day did your day start? C: Well, I get in down there about nine o'clock. Do you know where they live? I: No. I don't. C: Well, you know that block house like the Presbyterian Church, now that is where I worked at. I: You did? That wasn't a long walk for you then. C: No. ‘Cause I tell you at that time we lived in the upper end of town and we moved down the road there and then I stopped working there and I got working for a hotel here by the name of Cooper House. I: Cooper House? C: Yeah. Boarding house. I made two dollars a week. I: What did you do at the hotel? C: Honey, I washed dishes, and, at that time they didn't have washrooms at that time. I believe that hotel had sixteen rooms in it, and they used bowls and pitchers, and you had to carry water upstairs to fill up the pitchers. Honey, that's right. You'd have to carry these slop jars down they used. Now honey, now where this place is, I can’t call that [name of the] filling station. It's before you get to the café. What is the name of that café? I: Bent Café? C: No, honey this is on this side. I: On this side? C: Uh-huh. I: Snead? C: No. This comes down this way. I: The Pizza Hut? Near there? C: No. I can't call that cafe's name. I: Alright. C: Anyway it is right in front of Smoky Mountain Times. You know, ain't the Smoky Mountain Times across the street over there? I: Right, it is. C: Well, right where that filling station is, now that big hotel sit there; it had sixteen rooms in it. I worked there. I: How long did you work there? C: Oh honey, I worked there till I was thirteen. I: When did you start working? C: I was about twelve. I: Twelve or thirteen? C: I guess, probably I was about eleven. I: When you first started working outside the home? C: Yeah. I: Now what about your food for home. Did your folks have a garden or what? C: No. We never did have a garden, honey. I: So you had to buy everything? C: We've always had to buy our food. I: And your clothing? C: Well, at that time, honey, we didn't, you know, have many clothes. At that time white people was pretty good about giving. They gave to Mother, and Sally could sew. I: So your sister could sew? C: She could peg down things, you know. I: So she alterate the dresses or whatever? C: Alterate them down where I worked for Helen, I know you heard talk of Helen Angel. I: Helen Angel, yes. C: I could wear Helen’s clothes. But she had two children, one named Helen and a boy named Paul. So we really had more clothes than now. I do, ‘cause I never was used to buying clothes. I used to buy clothes some when you know living with my husband. But honey I always put my money in the home. I: You always put your money in the home? Now when you started working at the age of eleven did you get to keep your money or did you have to give it to your mother? C: No. I had to give it to my mother, and you see, I was proud of that ‘cause it meant a lot to learn how to work, you see I didn’t know how to work out like that. ‘Cause you know I never would take nothin’ and still don’t. [Laughter] I: You didn't take much off people, did you? C: No, honey. And just as sure I sass at her, that woman she'd tell Mother and I'd go home and I'd get my back whipped. I: Your back whipped? With a switch? C: Yeah! I: Did you feel it? C: Yeah. I: I bet that hurt. C: Yeah. Why honey, that’s why Mother would whip us. I: Did you sass any more after getting your back whipped? C: Yeah. I would talk short, honey, ‘cause Daddy and Mother ‘cause they always told me, Mother always said I was the most hard headed young ‘un she ever had. [Laughter] She always did say it, ‘cause the last time she whipped me. And I always tried to do what she told me to and I just felt like I wasn’t going to take any more whippings. I had told her this you know. I told, I said, “Mother, I will do whatever you want me to do,” but I said, “But don’t you hit me.” I don’t know what Sissy, where I would hit her back or not; keep me from it. That’s right. And she didn’t hit me ‘cause she talked to me. “I’m going to let you off this time,” she’d say, “now I’m going to let you off,” and the next time she kept her switches in there. Oh honey, one thing that my mother, any of them, they always said that I was more like my mother ‘cause I stuck to her. I stuck to all my parents. Honey, I have worked, I have done for them through the sickness and the rest of them wouldn’t, ‘cause I don’t know if they knew how or not, and then some of them was nervous. I know when my Momma died, Lord, I’m going to tell you the truth child, I had a time here. You take Ann, she never was good around dying and Jesse was the same way. Honey I tried to keep them happy, you know and I knew all the time she was dying. I know that better than any of them. I: Well, Miss Leona, let's talk about your younger days. Do you remember your happiest Christmas? C: You mean as a child? I: As a child. C: Honey, I can't remember ‘cause you know if I got some candy, there was a lot of time youngins didn't know what Santa Claus was anyhow. But I didn’t raise my child up on Santa Claus. I: You didn't? C: No, ‘cause I think that is terrible. I: Did your mother raise you to believe in Santa Claus? C: My mother and my sister, Sally. Honey, you know what we get? You didn't get oranges too often. We got oranges and we would get candy and you know these great big apples. They called them Buff. Honey that is what we got for Christmas. I: There wasn't one special Christmas out of all of them? Well do you remember the first time you ever saw a park? C: Oh yeah. Uh-huh. We were here. I: You were here in Bryson city? C: I know when I was working, I thought of school. (Laughter) I wasn’t but maybe about twenty-two. They had a old car. They called it a Sedan Coup. Honey, I would get in that old car, I thought I, you know… I: Whose car was it? C: It was old Doc Bennett's. You see my baby's daddy, you see, I wasn't married when I had a baby. You see I had my baby early. I wasn't married. That was another time I'd like to have worked. You take and I was going to school. I: You were going to school when you had a baby? C: I had to go to school and my baby's daddy was too, of course, I didn't call myself a woman, you know I don't know nothing about going with boys. I: Right. How did you get in Doc Bennett’s car? What were you doing in the car? C: Well, with him. I: I didn't hear you. C: I said with him. You see, he worked for Doc Bennett. I: Oh, the baby's father worked for Doctor Bennett. C: Yeah. I: Well, did you get to ride in the car or sit in it? C: No honey, I got to ride in it; that's the reason I got a baby. I: Who was driving? (Laughter) C: Him. Me and him. I: So you went for a ride. Was that exciting to you? C: Honey, I was just scared to death, you know. See nobody back then, didn't nobody tell you nothing. Course, the old people would tell you... I: No, I mean riding in that car. C: Yeah, I know. There wasn't much excitement to it cause I wish a thousand times I had stayed out of it, you know. (Long pause) I: What was your favorite celebration, like July 4th or anything like that? C: No, not for myself. But you take most of the time I enjoyed any celebration with my mother. You know her birthdays and we always had a dinner. Ann was always doing something special for Momma on her birthday. Honey, I went to Greensboro, see I married young. I: In when? C: See I married pretty young and maybe too young and they wasn’t having mother’s birthday dinners when I left from here. When I come next and she was having birthday dinners and honey, having anywhere from forty to sixty people come in. I: They come to this house? C: Yeah, they would be here a lot of times. I: Forty to sixty people? C: Lots of times. I: When was your mother's birthday, do you remember? C: Yeah. January 22. I: My goodness, that is close to mine. I was born in January too. C: Sure enough? I: Yes. C: Mother started looking forward to it. I: Well, what did you do with sixty people? It's too cold to go outside? C: Well honey they would come in and we had them round yonder. We started round yonder, 'cause, see they was doing that when I left from here. 'Cause you know I never stayed home too much till I had to, you know after they started getting old. Somebody had to take care of them. I always took care of them. They would come in and maybe, you know get something to drink or eat, you know, something like that and some of them would go out. I ain't got all the people what come, but I've got mother's picture when she has had birthdays. I: Well that's the part of the history you will want to keep C: Yeah. I: And let the young people see. C: I've got some when she was around here. I've got my organ yet. I bought a organ long time ago and never could make any music. I: You wanted to play the organ? C: Ann could play. I: Oh she could? C: Uh-huh. I: Do you still have that organ? C: Yeah. I: Oh! C: I got it after we moved out here. I: It still plays? C: Oh yeah. I: Oh my goodness, an antique. C: I went to Sunday school and church. They used to have good time in church here, the Baptist church. Rev. Connelly and all of them, you know, the old preachers, Rev. Richie and all like that. Seem like people different now. All the older people are gone and the younger generation are different. I: Was there a special religious ceremony that you enjoyed or just regular church going? Was there a special time at church that you enjoyed, any celebration? C: I enjoyed when they have these May meetings. Yeah I like to talk about the services. I: Do you like to talk about church? C: Oh yeah. Honey that's all I am, that's the truth. It took me a long time, sissy to find out, I'm going to tell you the truth, they ain't no difference, they ain't but one God and we know that. But one thing about it, you know, is we grow in grace; you know one thing we was talking about your children and I was talking about you and the way you have growed. Now you see that's the reason I didn't know you. Do you know we’d the very same thing over here in religion? I: Uncle Berry Howell? C: I believe it was Uncle Berry and Rev. Connelly baptized me. I: As a Baptist? C: Yeah. See, that's the first church I belonged to. In fact, my family were Baptist and you take, I guess, I was about 15 when I got converted. Your Grandma Stacey seen me, she was baptized too, when I was baptized. Well honey, ever since it seems like they been something in me. It seem like it been reaching out. I didn't know what it was, but you take and, Sissy after I went to Greensboro, we got to go to a lot of other churches you know. He used to preach over in there. He fell down, he wasn’t what he thought he was, ‘cause if he had he would have been standing today, of course, he’s dead. One night I had been to a place called a House of Prayer and there was a woman out on the street, it was a big maple just right off the sidewalk. Now honey, she was preaching like, I don’t know what happened to me, but it looked like I couldn’t get enough of it. She looked at me and said, “We are going to give her an opportunity to say something ‘cause she has been standing there a long time.” Honey, I was nervous and they wasn’t a thing in the world I knowed what to say. All I know is, I know when the Lord converted me honey, I know when I was born again, I knowed that. I hadn’t lived up to it and honey, I testified and this meeting on the sidewalk, it went on for two weeks. Honey, I was there every night. I: The meeting was on the sidewalk? C: Yeah. I: There wasn't a church? C: No. Honey, I was down there every night, and that's the truth. Sitting in front of that woman. I: And this was in Greensboro? C: Yeah. On Market Street. I: Market Street. I know where that is. C: Yeah. I lived right off Market Street. I: Did you? C: Uh-huh. I lived close to the A&T College. I: A&T College. C: Peachtree Street. I: I know the area. Well, after you left Greensboro, did you move again? C: No. I moved here. I: You moved back to Bryson, now. At that time there wasn’t a Holiness Church here, was there? C: Oh no. I: So… C: I went to Canton. I: You went to Canton? C: I went to Canton to church over and you take Aunt Liza with me. I: How would you get there? C: Get me a taxi. I: You got a taxi to go to Canton? C: Yeah. I got to go more. My membership is in Canton now. You see, you know we had a church. I: Are you talking about the church above McKinley's store? C: No. You know where Ms. Emma's house was. I: Right. But I thought your first church was over by McKinley store. C: That's right. That's right. I: And after you left there- C: Then we were [brought to town]. I: Alright, now how many members were there in Bryson City in the Bryson City congregation? C: Well, you take and see many that one reason we had to go out. A lot of our members died. My sister she was a member, Tommy's mother was a member and my brother George was a member and Katie's husband was a member and then, of course, me, and then we had a member or two to come from canton. I: So you had maybe ten people in that church? C: Yeah. Two more than that. I: It wasn't a very large congregation? C: Oh no. I: Well did the minister come over here from Canton? C: Yeah. They would come and be with us you know I: I remember as a little girl going to your church even though I was Baptist. Now at that time it seemed that because the town was so small, that whether you were a Baptist or Holiness you attended each other’s church. C: Oh yeah, honey. Aunt Pearl was one of the best pastors we ever had. She’s the one that established the church. I: Aunt Pearl? C: She’s the one. I: Is Aunt Pearl still the Priest? C: No. You know she’s been awful sick. They was out here about two weeks ago to see me. I: Now this is the second time I’ve hear you mention the preacher or minister being a woman. C: Oh yeah. We have women or men, but all the reason we get the women all the time is men won’t come here. I: Right. C: Brother Dixon stayed here. You know him real well. He lives here and then we had another one, now what was his name? I can't recall his name. He had a wife and two children. That was the last man we've had. I: Did you find that even in Greensboro unusual? C: What? I: To have the women and two church leaders? C: No. I: No? When you were here in Bryson, the ministers were for the most part men, right? C: No. You take and..... I: There were women Baptist Ministers? C: No. I am going to tell you one thing about it that, honey you know Baptist Ministers don't believe in women in preachers. I: Right. C: But why? You know one place in the Bible says in the last days, I might not be able to tell you where to find it the scripture, but this is scripture. Well honey I will tell you about the Bible. It says that in the last days she would part her on the sons and daughters and they would prophesy. I: So the Holiness Church believes in women as ministers. C: Well, do you know, Sissy, do you know one thing about it, your Bible, it says about Holiness you cannot enter into God's kingdom and you know one thing, we're looking to go ain't we? Now you know, honey, Holiness ain't holy. It's just a plain life. I: Well, let me ask you about any special events in history or even the history of Bryson City that you remember. What do you remember about the Depression? C: Honey, I don't know, remember. I wasn't here when they was talking about when [it was awful]. I: They were real close? C: Yeah. I was here I guess, to me I always says [inaudible] to me. ‘Cause I always seem like [the kind] you know. I never did just like I say, I've always been the one to work and seem like I have never made a whole lot of money. I: Do you remember anything in Bryson City that has happened that affected a lot of people? Maybe a fire or something like that. C: Fire? I: That is just for an example. Something like that would affect a lot of people in Bryson city, like a minor kitchen fire or anything like that when you were growing up or in your younger days. C: I don’t think so. I: Were any of your brothers in any of the wars? First World War? C: Oh yeah. You take Jesse. I: Jesse was in World War? C: He was in there. I don't know which war it was. That's the reason you know I always felt like he wasn't so strong. I: Do you remember if all the men in his troops were black? Were they all black? The men he fought with die. C: I don't remember that. You know ‘cause he wouldn't talk but very little on that. [You know] his wife, ‘cause Jesse has been married twice. I: Do you remember where he went during the war? C: No. ‘Cause you see one thing Jesse wasn't at home. Jesse left Franklin. You see Jesse went to Knoxville, Tennessee. He first stayed in Murphy for a while with George. See, George use to live in Murphy. I: In Murphy? C: Uh-huh. Then he come here and Jesse stayed then in Murphy a while with [inaudible]. He went from Murphy to Tennessee and that's where he lived when he joined. I: Was there several of your brothers and sisters in Tennessee? C: No. Jesse was the only one. I: The only one? C: Uh-huh. I: What are some of the social customs that you used to have here that you don't have now? For example, I'm thinking of hayrides or serenading people who were married. C: I don't know about that cause one thing I honestly you might think I'm stupid or anything like that, but child, I never been to a party in my life. I: You have never been to a party? C: I've never been to a party cause when you know we was raised up, mother didn't let us go to anything like that, and I know Wilma. You know Wilma Simpson. I: Wilma Simpson? C: Yeah. I: Yes. C: Now Wilma was in school when I was in school and seem like Wilma was having some kind of party and I was asked to it and mother wouldn't let me go. I be [inaudible] and be just as dumb as a party, and that's the truth now. I: What did you do for fun then if you weren't allowed to go to parties? C: Honey, work. I: Were you allowed to play with other children? C: Well there wasn't any children. Honey, we was raised here. Nobody ever come around us much. Now you take... I: You think that was because you lived so far down? C: Why, I don’t think so ‘cause, honey, [tape tears] Corey Sanders took me up in Bird Town and until it was, [we always called up Dale Thomas]. I: Dale Thomas? C: Yeah. Uncle Dale he’s kin to us. Kin to mother and that’s the reason I’m always getting on to Jane. I: Aren’t you related to the Thomases? C: Mother was. I: Your mother was related to the Thomases. How was you related to them? C: It comes through Aunt Jane Rogers. [Inaudible] yeah. Dale was a Thomas. I: ‘Cause Dale was a Thomas. C: Uh-huh. I: I thought Dale was a Thomas. C: Well I don’t know. I don’t know what Aunt Jane was, she was a Rogers ‘cause of her husband. Uncle [Miles]. I: So do you think maybe she was a Thomas? C: She must have been. ‘Cause being she is a Rogers. You see Uncle Miles Rogers. I: Right. So, who are your relatives here in Bryson City? Which families are you related to? C: Well child, I don’t know. I: I know the Thomases [lived past your] great nephews. C: Yeah. I: So his father was Albert Thomas and his mother Grace; what was her last name before she married? C: Perry. I: Perry? C: That was my niece. I: So she was your niece? C: That was George's daughter. I: Oh. C: That was George's youngest girl. I: I see. C: You know all of them is dead now but R. L. I: R. L. Simms? C: Yeah. He's in Tennessee. He's just as crazy as a lunatic. You know Maggie died here. I guess he's been buried here about three weeks now. She was in Detroit. I: So you were related to the Perrys and the Thomases in Bryson City? C: Well I don't know where, you know my brother, of course you take Grace married Albert [inaudible]. Aunt Jane Rogers, I don't know what she was before she married, but she was kin to mother. I don't know how much kin. I don't have too many kin folks, honey. I tell you, you know a lot of the Dehart’s that would come in on my mother's side. I: Now how was that? C: ‘Cause my mother's daddy was a Dehart. Her daddy was a Dehart. I: Your mother's father was a Dehart? C: Yeah. I: Are you related to my great uncle and grandmother? C: According to that. I: I didn't understand. C: I said according to that. Uncle Jim and Jess, they ain't never told you that, Sissy? You know one thing about it, David was down here, you know David? I: David [inaudible]. C: Uh-huh. I: What about him [inaudible]? C: You know one thing about it, I don't know nothing about them. You take Elsie, see that was George's daughter. I: Elsie? C: Uh-huh. And Maggie married Hal. I: Hal? C: She married Ed. I: Ed? C: Yeah and you know what I said, I said I'm going to tell you one thing, Daddy, Ed could have went in on any of our names. He could belong in on the Parris' name ‘cause Elsie wasn't married. He could went in at that ‘cause they say that [it] was his daddy. I say he could have went in his name cause he could go in the Parris name, couldn't he? I: That is what it seems. C: Well I'm going to tell you one thing, Tommy wasn't, my nephew Tommy, I: Tommy Junior? C: Yeah. Now his daddy is a Dehart. They said Tommy likes to cook, you know. I: You mean Tommy Jr.? C: Uh-huh. He likes to cook. See he stayed in the Navy seven year. He went into the Navy from my house, from Greensboro. I: [Inaudible] C: Yeah, he was smart. I just don't know why he couldn't [mix up more than (inaudible)], he's smart. Now he's throwed his life away, you know. He was a big ole drunkard. I: Oh my goodness! C: Yeah, he was. [Tape tear up) I: Do you remember the first time you cooked on a electric stove? C: Oh yeah. I: When was that? C: That when I was a little [inaudible] you notice, I notice my mother [inaudible]. A family of people by the name of [I really can’t remember]. I: [Inaudible]? C: Yeah. They used to live up, they call it Cripple Creek. I used to go up there, and she showed me how to use a electric iron. You know where, at that time, I was big enough to use thread and needle, you know. She showed me how, and from that day honey, you know honey, I'm real easy to learn. I said that if I could have got to went to school, I would have been easy to learn, but I didn't get to go. But anyway, I get by on what little I got. I didn't even study the fourth grade. I: You didn't? C: No. I: Well, how old you when you first cooked on this electric stove? C: Oh, let's see. We was living 'round there. Cause when I worked at this boat house, they had these great big 'ole coal stoves, honey. You know, you've seen them. I: That's almost six feet tall. C: Well that's what they had and they burnt coal and wood and these people what run that hotel, they was cookers. Hal owns [several] yet. But Miss [Elliott], her mother is dead, and her grandpa would always tip me every Saturday. He said, now I tell you if you come and build a fire on Sunday morning, I had to go a Sunday, I will give you a quarter. I thought that was a lot money. I: Did you give that money to your mother too, or was that your money? C: I saved my money. I never was one to spend money. You know, you take right now, honey, I [didn’t want] to spend money. I used to have the church people here. Sometimes I would have, oh sometimes I'd have never have under seven or eight. Sometimes with children. I: When did you get your own electric stove? How old were you? C: Since I've had this stove here, this stove I've got now is Katie's. I: Right. But I mean your very first one. C: Oh. When I was nine. I: When you were nine? C: Uh-huh. I: So you had your own stove. C: I had my own electric stove when I was in Greensboro [inaudible] box. I: About how old were you then? C: Honey, I don't know, I was about ten, look how long her husband has been dead. He's been dead, let me see, he's been dead around, I say he's been dead at least about eighteen or nineteen years and I don't know how long they had been courtin'. See [we had] lived together, we lived together for years and then come down to where [inaudible] then we parted. I: Do you remember how old you were when you were in Greensboro? C: I guess I was around thirty-five, maybe closer to forty. I: Do you like all these modern conveniences? C: Oh yeah, honey. I can use any of them, you know. Seem to me like, sissy, they had right smart of them when I was getting up in the teens, you know. Vacuum cleaners, washing machines and things like that. I: But you were a little older before you had your very own? C: Oh yeah. Yeah honey. They didn't want you to have much. You know that is the reason I always say that I [didn’t really pay for nothin’]. See they figure we had to do it, and really we did. I know one time my mother, we was living right around the road there and mother was kind of mean anyhow..... I: She was kind of what? C: She was kind of mean. Anyhow now, I guess it tourists what you call it now, come through here, you know it was chauffeur and a nurse and these was, I believe they was Burchfield's. Now I was up some size then, probably up in the teens and you take this Burchfield must been something like a deputy sheriff or something like that. I don't know why she done it, but anyhow, this car had stopped and this nurse and maid was in there and why he was shooting at him and this chauffeur got out over there where Ingles is, took out across the field and my mother had been somewhere to work and she come in, she would take her shoes off and sit on the porch in her stocking feet. This man, the chauffeur, took out across the field just hollering, just a hollering, and you know my mother at that time, my mother was always [inaudible]. She was eating an apple. She had the butcher knife, honey she took after that man, that Burchfield man, deputy sheriff now, with that butcher knife, I'm telling you, barefooted [honey] hold of their apples, peelings up [inaudible] like and that and we had a time with [inaudible]. I: Why do you think she [inaudible]? C: She was. Why if she had got to him, she'd cut his throat. She would have and he was just a hollering. He was just hollering and he had done shot and the nurse was scared to death and I don't say nothing. Well you see, people, what they working for, they had done went on ahead and I guess they thought they had caught up with them and they come back and Mother was standing out there barefooted, honey, in the middle of them people with her apron tucked full of apples..... I: She had an apron on? C: Yeah. It was full of apples and barefooted. I: And the knife in her hand? C: This was a Burchfield. I don't know the Burchfields. I bet your mother could tell you about them. Seem to me like his name was Hasley? Honey, my momma would cut your throat. I: Was she trying to keep the sheriff off the [porch]? C: Yeah. She didn't like it ‘cause he shot at.... I: The chauffeur? C: Yeah. I: Well did anything happen to your mother? C: No. Nothing happened to her, we got her back on the porch. (Laughter.) I: That was an interesting story. C: Oh my mother, honey, I'm telling you the truth I've always [inaudible] in my family, cause all of them was mean. I was so glad when they got the Lord in I didn't know what to do. Honey, I'm telling you one thing that I was a happy person when they got the Lord in cause then they didn't care and I told them I said I don't know you took all that off the deputy sheriff. That's the truth, I did. I: Did that change their lives when they accepted the Lord? C: Yeah. Me and my brother got into it [tape tore up] they might not have charged us, but I would like to tell them about the Lord, that's about all I know to talk about, cause honey, I could sit and talk to all day tomorrow about the Lord. Sometime when you want, honey, the history about me and about the Lord, you come to town, I'd be glad to give. I: Well, I'll just do that sometime. C: Yeah.
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