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Interview with Katarina Eclipse

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  • Eclipse 1 GENDER & SEXUALITY ORAL HISTORY PROJECT DRAG QUEENS Interviewee: Katarina Eclipse Interviewer: Sarah Steiner Location: Asheville, NC Date: June 13, 2018 Duration: 1:09:21; 12 pages Sarah Steiner: My name is Sara Steiner and I’m here with Kat Gray whose drag name is Katarina Eclipse. it’s June 13, 2018 and we are in Asheville, North Carolina and we’re going to be discussing Kat’s life and experiences with drag in North Carolina. So thank you so much for chatting with me today. Katarina Eclipse: Thank you for having me. SS: Can you start off by telling us a little bit about your life, where you were born, where you grew up and your early experiences with drag. KE: Yeah, well I am actually originally from Winston Salem, North Carolina. I had by lack of a better term a very sheltered life. I was passed between parents a lot so I never really... I also grew up on a farm with 100 cows in the back yard. It was terrible, it smelled all the time. But I grew up in a city where being gay or anyone within in the LGBTQ community was unheard of. It was kind of like the secret hush of the city is if you were involved in that kind of community. But I had a lot of things that happened in my childhood, with my parents and I kind of lost… I don’t know I kind of developed this thing of just walking through life, not really thinking about who I was, or growing as a person. One of my experiences, the tip of the iceberg is my mom told me I was going to spend Easter week with my dad and didn’t come back for six years. No cards, no nothing, just vanished. And that kind of… like I said my foundation kind of was rocked and I just kind of walked through life, I didn’t really think anything of it. When I was in middle school I started questioning my attraction to guys. But I was way too afraid. My school had two people of African American decent. It was very, boots, everyone drove big trucks, it was just, I hate that term, but redneck as all get out. But when I moved in with my mom in high school, I moved in with her my freshman year. I came out my freshman year as gay, well as bisexual originally. And when I came out as bisexual my family took it and ran with it. My aunt on my father’s side convinced my parents to put me in a psych ward. And kind of, it was a lot. I developed claustrophobia from it. It kind of suppressed a lot of my questions and my thoughts. I kind of developed this alternate personality in a way where when I was at school, I was the token gay kid, but when I was at home I was the kid that never spoke and had his nose in a book. His at the time. I graduated, I ended up switching schools my junior year and I graduated as the only gay kid. I had a lot of support surprisingly. I went from a school that had two African American kids to a school that had a nice medium, to a school that had I think it was 30 percent were Caucasian. So I kind of got to experience the whole spectrum of personalities and nationalities and it kind of made me, it pushed me from wanting to be… at the time I thought I wanted to be a better person, when I just wanted to be who I was. But it definitely taught me a lot about accepting people regardless of where they come from, who they are. Especially with my own situations going on. But then when I was 20ish, 20, I’m going to say, okay, it was the month before I turned 21. I had been in a bad relationship and I moved up to Asheville. I was at the time running for my life because it was abusive, whole thing, whole thing. But I turned 21 and my friend and I we wanted to have the experience of Eclipse 2 going out and drinking legally. It was actually Brevard which is 45 minutes from Asheville where I lived. And I went to a show, and I watched my first drag show. And I just remember thinking, I wanted, not necessarily that, I didn’t necessarily want to perform, I didn’t want to do the makeup, but I wanted that confidence that everyone had. Because at the time I had never met anyone that was transgender, I had never researched transgender, I had never researched drag, I never… I grew up in a city that didn’t really have it. There was one bar, which is now closed, now Winston Salem does not have any bars that are LGBTQ friendly. You have to go to Greensboro, which is 30 to 40 minutes away. But the thought stuck with me and I kept thinking about doing drag and finally I went to a show and at the time I was not courageous. At all. No courage, didn’t talk to anyone. I was quiet and in the corner. For lack of a better term, I emotionally had everything beaten down that I didn’t have any self-confidence. I didn’t have any drive really. I had quit school, which I’m still kind of like, [regretful groan] SS: School or college? KE: College. Yeah, I did one semester of college and I was going to be an English major with a minor in photography, but it was one of the things I dropped when I ran/moved up here. And I’ve just never. I hit the ground running once I got here. But I met my drag mother Euphoria Eclipse, it was, she did a number and then she performed and then she hosted the rest of the show. And I was sitting there on the sides, and I was watching and the show finished and I didn’t really… wasn’t… I don’t know, something struck a chord with me about Euphoria, something was different, something was comfortable. And I hadn’t even met her, never seen her, never nothing. But I just practically ran across that dance floor and I said to her, I said, at the time, my name is Ryan, that is my biological name, which is fine if you use that—I’m not ashamed. But I was like, do you have any advice for someone who might want to perform. Well my drag mother being my drag mother, the amazing person she is, he is, that was on Saturday, I came over on Tuesday, we made a costume and then on Thursday I performed in my first talent show. SS: When was that, how long ago? KE: That was, my first show was March 13, 2000… that was 5 years ago, so ‘13. So I’ve, for two years I’ve kind of spot on on like maybe gone to one or two shows in that two years and that was kind of my only exposure prior to it. But over the years, as soon as I started drag, as soon as I performed for the first time, I knew that I was different. I knew that it was like a flood gate being opened. It was like everything that had always been suppressed and pushed back, everything I had been too afraid to feel just opened up and it was a life changing experience. But I announced to everyone that I was, I said asexual, at the time, not asexual, I’m sorry, androgynous. SS: I see. KE: Because I kind of, there’s pictures of me just being in the crowd where I’m wearing just everyday attire, but with heels on. And every time anyone saw me I was in heels. Which is still a thing, if I wear flat shoes, people are like what? What? But it kind of awakened this whole thing and I announced to a handful of people, Ginger Von Snap being one, Euphoria being the other, and eventually Josie Glamoure, because she hated me at first. She was like no one is that nice. Who is a transwoman, she was my first trans woman experience. But I was like I think I’m wanting to transition. And I had heard stories by this point, this is about a year in of people being so caught up in the fame and the attention that they get when they’re in drag that a lot of gay men in the drag culture consider transitioning because they think that… they just get addicted to the attention. So I kind of, it’s kind of like an unsaid thing, not a lot of Eclipse 3 people know about that, but because of that, I was like, I’m going to take a year or two and I’m going to continue doing drag and if it’s something that I still want to do, then I’m going to transition. I ended up waiting two and a half years… no, a lot longer than that, because I just started last August. Over four years. SS: How old were you when that, in that range of thinking about it and…? KE: I started thinking about it when I was 22. And I started transitioning, I’m 27 now, but I started transitioning when I was technically 26, it was a month before my birthday. And I started hormones and everything. So now I’m ten months in, nine months in and I’m [whispers] I finally feel a lot better. But I mean, everyone was supportive, everyone in the community was supportive. I kind of announced publicly I was trans. And everyone was extremely... my family, was kind of weird, but my family unfortunately has dwindled down to three people because there is a lot of alcoholism in my family and things like that and people die young (that’s a whole thing). But, I have even my mom’s support now. My mom used she pronouns and my little sister, my sister is younger than me, she is 11 years younger than me so she’s like Yes! I have a drag queen for a sister. So that’s kind of the abridged version of [whispers] It’s a lot I’m sorry. SS: No, that was amazing. I have a few questions for you to follow up on things. So you mentioned that your sort of extended family sort of convinced your parents to put you in a psych ward. Was that a live-in thing, or was it temporary, or can you talk a little bit more about what that was sort of like and what that involved? KE: Yeah, it was only a week because the doctors at Baptist Hospital, I mean they were my saving grace at the time, they literally were like there is nothing wrong with this kid. You guys just don’t understand what is going on. The first night, because what happened is my aunt told them I was having a psychotic break and that’s why I was coming out as bisexual. She… in a way she manipulated me and she was saying that I was suicidal because she asked, as terrible as it is, she was asking a 15 year old, does this make you want to harm yourself, does this make you feel trapped. Does this make you feel this, does this make you feel that and I was honest. I was like there are days that it is hard because I can’t tell anybody and she spiraled it. And my claustrophobia that I developed stems from the first night I was there, I lost it in a way where I was just like this is not where I’m supposed to be. Because I lost, they took everything, I could not have any outside communication, no shoe strings, it was down to everything, no jewelry, no nothing, it was like I was stripped bare. Not genuinely, but, and they put me in a room that was like the 13th floor maybe and it was grated, like window, I had one window and it had a grate over it, vents, I don’t know I’m trying to think of the term. And I had to sleep on this bed and there were straps on the bed and it just messed with my head. Because I was like, I’m okay, this isn’t. part of what made it hard for me to talk to people was the next morning they had me go in this room and I had to sit there with two doctors and I think a rough estimate was 6 to 7 college students that were wanting to be in the field and they just asked me question after question after question. Like I was a lab rat in a way. I just sat in this chair and it was like why do you want to do this, what do you think this is and “duh duh duh da duh” and it was weird because my only… Because this is during the school year which made it ever worse, because here I am a freshman at a new school and I just came out as at school as gay and then I go missing for a week and they interviewed my friends at my school, the few that I had. They interviewed my bully, which the bully then was like, because I had mentioned one bully that I had, and they were like, they pulled him out of class, they just had no regards, they said I was in a Eclipse 4 psych ward, it spread throughout the school, I came back and was the crazy kid. Which I will say it was weird, my saving grace was school. My teachers would send me homework, but then on the inside were like don’t do this, we’re here. And it was like all my worksheets had a little note. I wish I still had them. They were like don’t even bother doing this, just look like you’re doing it and try to relax, we’re here to support you. It was nice, because I came back to school and my teachers didn’t treat me like an eggshell. They didn’t treat me like a fragile person, they were just like if you need us we are here. So that was my saving grace through it. But like I said, I was only there for a week. Despite everything it was weirdly nice because I also now see that I learned a lot. We would eat with the other people that were there and we would kind of like secretly share our stories so I kind of learned that interaction of hearing people’s stories and I kind of developed this nurturing side of me where I can hear things and know how to articulate them in ways that don’t come across as… I don’t know how to say it, as not like I’m trying to help you to the point where it’s smothering. I’ve learned ways of phrasing things that makes it easier to get and to you know it sinks in better. So I learned that through that experience. I don’t regret the experience at all. Ehhhh I still don’t like small rooms, but you know it definitely changed my life and (I’m trying not to get emotional) it changed the course, my foundation for everything I do. No kid should go through that. No kid should try to speak out and say this is who I am, even if it’s even if it’s the tip of the iceberg of who you are, and be told you’re crazy and have people trying to give you medicine. Which I took medicine when I was there, but as soon as I got out, I was like nope, I don’t need antidepressants, I don’t need anything like that. I mean I became a zombie over the course of the seven days. Each day I lost a piece of me until the final day when they came to get me and I was just like. Okay. But that was the medicine, that all went away. Does that answer everything? SS: Yeah, thank you. And you also mentioned that you changed high schools a couple of times. What was the sort of impetus for the changes and how did that kind of go? KE: My mom… which is going to sound completely crazy, the moment I say this it’s like, what? When my mom came back she was dating this woman, she’d been dating her for 13 years. Which I remembered her from when I was a kid, but I didn’t understand. Because when my mom dipped out I was 8, so I was just like, okay alright. But I… when I came back to live with my mom, my mom worked second shift so I never saw her, I had no relationship with her at all. For me, it was an out. Because during the time when I was with my dad, my grandfather was abusive, a whole ‘nother tip of the iceberg, but for me it as an out, it was a way of saving myself in a way. So legally I think I was 14 about to turn 15 and if they wanted to take legal action I was of age where I could say which parent I wanted to live with. Because at the time I believe it was if you’re over 13 you could pick a parent, but if you were over 16 you had to prove they could support you but you could do with anyone. At the time, this is 2005ish. Of course all that has changed now. I ended up living with my mom and this woman named [tone] and [tone] had two kids, but her and my mom split and my mom went to live with another woman, another woman that she was dating. And [tone] kind of played the pity piano a little too much and I had no connection to my mom so I chose to stay with [tone]. And I… that was a mistake. SS: When you say she played the pity piano, do you mean she kind of made you feel bad, or? KE: She was just, she played it to every key she could. She was… I mean, she was like your mom doesn’t care about you, you were an accidental birth, you were never planned, everything to make me turn against my mom. Which, I was 15, I was like sure. This was after the whole psych ward experience too, so it was like, it was a year and a half later so it was the end of my sophomore year and I was already Eclipse 5 like, at school I was already who I was and I didn’t want to give that up, and at home I was starting to get to where I wanted to be, who I wanted to be. Which is still weird to me because my mom was dating a woman and I was like how was I still not allowed to be… this whole euhhhhgg. But [tone] ended up just spiraling. I mean I get that she was going through a breakdown but she just… I don’t know how to phrase this. She tried to ruin my life. Her--I’d prefer this part to be off the record but it’s fine. Her kids biological father sexually abused her two kids and he gave her a nice pretty check every month so when the doctor figured it out and it came to light she pointed the finger at me because I was a gay kid living in the house. SS: I just got chills all down my body that was horrible. KE: No no I know, that’s the one story I don’t typically share because I feel like it tarnished me. I feel like it makes people like… my boyfriend that was abusive that I mentioned he literally… I told him and he said I bet you did do it. So he used it against me. He was crazy. Literally that’s why I ran up here. But it was easier to blame the gay kid in the house then it was to blame the person giving the paycheck every month because she didn’t work. They literally came home one day during summer, summer had just started, and just started throwing my stuff out in the yard in trash bags and just asking me why I did it and all the stuff and made this whole elaborate thing. So I moved in with my mom in High Point and that’s why I started a new school. I don’t mind that part being shared I just don’t want the names parts shared like [tone] I’d rather not share her name. But that part of my story I don’t mind telling people because it is a part of what made me who I am. That was the foundation of what made me move. But I will say after that I started working at the Boys and Girls Club during the summer and I work with kids and I love kids now. Even though at first I was like I am so scared. So scared. So scared. It developed the whole thing. If someone tries to tell me I did something that I didn’t do I flip now. I lose it. But yeah, sorry, my story is very like… SS: I appreciate you sharing it. So you mentioned your first show a little bit and how Euphoria kind of got you out there very quickly. Can you talk a little bit more about that and how it felt and how it went? KE: Let’s see. It was like I said I mean it was definitely life-changing, because she literally the moment I spoke to her it was like I was swept away. She was like no come backstage I got to meet a lot of her drag kids that later became my brothers and sisters ‘cause she had both queens and kings as kids. I got to see what backstage was like after a show… we were talking. I mean to this day Euphoria or James whichever is when I need something or I have a moment that’s who I call. That’s my go-to. They changed my life. They’ve made me who I am. I totally was gunna, just not go on Tuesday and she said get together which day you’re off and I said oh I’m off on Tuesday and she was like meet me at my house this is my address meet me there at six. And I was like okay. And I tossed around the idea for 2 to 3 days I kind of started talking about it at work and my coworkers were very supportive. They were very much like do this. You seem excited you seem terrified but there is an edge of excitement. And I went on Tuesday and we sat there for two hours trying to think of my name alone. My drag name actually comes from Eclipse is her last name and she chose Eclipse because an Eclipse is a rare thing that happens once in a blue moon oh you can’t say that with an eclipse. It’s a rare occurrence but when it is an occurrence it takes center stage and everyone looks at it. And that’s where she developed Eclipse from and I wanted to honor that and honor her. Because she got me started. And my first name Katarina is actually pronounced Katarina. Eclipse 6 It’s from Vampire Diaries because there’s this vampire name Katherine and she was the bad guy, but she radiates confidence and radiates sexual appeal… everything. She knows who she is she knows what she’s going for even though she’s the bad guy she does what she needs to do to get what she wants to go. And I was like I don’t want to be a bad guy, but I want that comfortable I want to be comfortable in my body enough to be like hey. Which that never happened, but it’s fine. I mean I’m comfortable in my body but I’m not comfortable enough to be like hey how’s it going. Nope! But that kind of, that’s where my name stemmed from because she was like a 100-year-old vampire so her previous name is Katerina. It was at the time I was like okay. Then the night of my first show, I left work early, drove out to Asheville she started doing all my makeup and started talking to me about it. I had chosen Put Your Graffiti On Me by Kat Graham, the irony in that that my name became Kat is still something I love. But you know we had made… Tuesday we had made my name, made my costume, she let me pick my song, I still have my first costume. I still break it out on rare occasion just to make people be like what! I do a lot of facial art sometimes when I do drag I always do glitter highlight now. Sometimes I do stones on my face or crazy lines of different colors and that stemmed cause that first night when I did Put Your Graffiti On Me she did this whole graffiti artwork over my eye. I still had my eye makeup and everything, but it just kind of stemmed out and that is why I still do it now. And if someone wants that she sends them to me because you have just adapted this thing where you just know your face shape and you just do it. But stepping on that stage I was not prepared. I mean I was over-prepared I should say because I had once Tuesday happened I spent the next two nights choreographing everything learning moves from the music video, dances that me and my roommate at the time had randomly done. A song would come on and we’d be dancing in the kitchen like random things like that. And I had it choreographed from start to finish. So when I got out there and started performing I came out too early wayyyyy too early way before the words started. So I did like a sassy walk and then I hadn’t planned on tips I didn’t expect there to be tips I also didn’t expect them to like me. So literally I was taking tips this was years ago, the club scene has kind of died down a little bit, but there was a lot of people and I’m supposed to be doing choreography and I’m trying to do tips. It was still, technically I should have won, but one of the judges didn’t like me because I was wearing--I didn’t know this, but I was wearing her hip pads, but I wasn’t aware that I was wearing her hip pads, so she didn’t like me because I didn’t ask. And I was like I’ve never met you or seen you before in my life but that’s fine. So I came in second. SS: So it was a competition? KE: It was a whole talent show I think there were seven or eight girls in total. But the bar owner or not the bar owner but the bar manager was like the outcome was kind of weird, but I still want to book you and that was the only talent show at Scandals I ever did. SS: So it was it at Scandals? KE: That’s my home that’s where I started. After that I did talent shows in Johnson City at New Beginnings. They actually had Star Search or something like that… Drag Star Search. And it was designed after RuPaul’s Drag Race. And I was so mad because at the time I kind of built this platform on rock songs I would occasionally throw out on rock songs and it was rock week and I got sent home on rock week and I was like how this is my go to this is my favorite thing how did I get sent home. So then I started performing all over. But I mean it was like I said it was life-changing experience after that I Eclipse 7 started getting booked. I got booked for a Friday and I put so much effort into it I was just talking about this last night my first show was I did Beautiful Drop Dead by Britney Spears and I did Buttons by Pussycat Dolls. And I have a friend of mine Michael who to this day he remembers when I did Buttons so eventually when he makes it to a show because he lives in the Western area now I’m going to have to do it. But yeah it’s just kind of built since then and it’s been a struggle. It’s definitely been uphill. I don’t think I technically got good until the past year and a half. I think everything was still a learning experience, learning how to paint my face, learning makeup tricks, and YouTube wasn’t as common then, so even though it was only a few years ago it’s weird to think about that. I learned a lot of old-school ways and I feel like I started getting good taking those old-school morals in old-school tricks and combining them with new school and the stuff you see on Instagram and RuPaul‘s Drag Race and kind of their chips and tricks and mixing it with the old-school. That’s why I’ll do old-school moves with new songs and took me a long time to kind of get my stride and know which direction… but the first year was the hardest. I didn’t know how to do anything. I didn’t know how to sew. I’d never sewn anything before in my life, I didn’t know how to paint my face I’ve never done anything with eyeliner before. SS: And you learned how to sew? KE: Yes and now I sew for other people as taxing and stressful as that is. But pretty much everything I wear when I perform I’ve made. The Harley Quinn suit I ordered online that was a cheat, but what I wore for Wicked I made, and then the cat suit I wore after I made. And now I work in a wig store so my life, my career and then this has kind of intermingled and I love it. The last two months I haven’t performed as much ‘cause I kind of like took a step back to focus on me. Because I had a break up and I was like okay we are going to get things right and then we’ll continue. Drag has definitely become an outlet. I kind of take pride in people telling me that I’m a very emotional performer. I’m able to emote what the song means a lot and not just perform it and go out there and do it. If I’m feeling a certain way I’ll do a song that represents that and so that’s kind of developed into who I am as a performer. My passion is I guess because it was all held back so long as a kid that it’s kind of like boom. It was like I said terrifying. So terrifying but worth it. And there is an adrenaline that happens that is unlike anything else. I’ve never played sports, but I would imagine it’s the same kind of concept. You’re in the moment and it’s almost like time slows but it doesn’t and then you’re suddenly done. I always tell, especially new queens that the first year is the hardest. Unfortunately, it takes a lot of determination and the ones that don’t have that determination, they usually quit. My drag kids I have three, all of them have something different and unique that they bring to the table and all of them have that fire. And in a way all of them have a piece of me that I recognized and that I kind of nurture. My first being Alexis, she became my daughter when she went out there one night and it was a crowd, and it was not big at all but she performed like it was 200. And I saw the drive and the determination and I saw the passion and I saw that she was throwing everything into it, even though it wasn’t giving it back and it snapped with me and it connected to me because that’s the way I’ve done thousands of times. So I asked her, she is my first kid. The second is actually a bio queen she just graduated high school she performed the first time when she was 17 so she’s kind of grown up in it. She’s very quiet like I was. And the third she’s just a spitfire she lives in Georgia but she’s very much like me. SS: So you mentioned determination and also your sort of day job and I mean it’s really, it’s a lot it’s two jobs really maybe more than two jobs so how--do you have any thoughts on balancing those things? Eclipse 8 KE: Fortunately I am very much a homebody outside of drag. I don’t drink when I perform. I don’t… I’m a very clean person, I don’t smoke cigarettes I’ve never smoked cigarettes a day in my life, I don’t do anything. I perform and then I go home. It’s more than that I talk to people and things like that, but a lot of people they find themselves getting lost because they do you get wrapped up in oh I can drink or oh the bar gives me two free drinks, oh! But a lot of that is that I keep a boundary on what I do. My job I do work six days a week but fortunately my job is 9:45 to (we extended hour hours) 6:45 and that’s late enough going and I can sleep in and I get off early enough I can do a show if I need to. Last October I was working five days a week and I did 14 shows that month. And you know there were before that when I first started drag I was working at Subway as a manager and I would get done at the bar at like 3 and leave for work at 5 in the morning. So I’d only get two or three hours of sleep, then I’d come home take a nap and then get up and do it all again. And that you know is that determination that I touched on is that you have to be everything you do you have to determine where you go. Drag is what you make of it drag is what you put into it. If you put everything into it you’ll see fast results, but if you pace yourself you’ll see more long-term results. And a lot of new queens I try to explain that to them too. My goal is every time I do a show I want one new costume. However if I worked a lot that week and I’ve done shows the weekend before and I don’t have time then I have to bite the bullet or there’s other ways of doing it. You buy new hair, buy new shoes, do a new song, do a new style. Take an old costume, tear it apart and remake it, do something different. It’s hard to find that balance, but it’s the love of it that drives you. I get overwhelmed. There’s times where I am like I just can’t. I’ve only canceled two shows in my entire career and one is when my car was broken down and I was stranded and the other time unfortunately I had a lot going on in my life, and I was just overwhelmed and I did, I had to say… it was a Sunday, it was a free show so it was fine but it was one of those things where it was like I have to step back and take care of myself. And that’s the biggest thing, is you find your own balance. I know it can be a lot, but like I said, a lot of it I use drag as an outlet. I use that and that adrenaline when you step on stage and that five minutes that’s yours and no one can take that from you. You can spend two hours on your makeup but when you’re on that stage and you’re doing that first number that first number is five minutes it’s all worth it. There’s nothing I hate to say it but you’re the center of attention and what you do with that is on yourself and that… I use it more as a platform. I use drag as a platform to build my story, not to build my story, but to tell my story because you become a public figure. You may not be Bill Clinton or anyone else, but you’re still a public figure. People still think about you the next day, people still acknowledge who you are as a human being and that’s a big factor in it, you know. So it all comes down to determination it’s how determined you are. Even though you want to put everything in you still have to remember to take back and be careful because you can get lost. It’s also a quick way to make money. I’ve done it where I’ve been like I am short on rent and then I’ve done a show and heyyyy not anymore. It’s hard especially the first year, the first year is the roughest because you are trying to find that balance. That’s why a lot of people when they start are like I’m going to do this this and this and I’m like pace yourself because it’s easy to get lost. Luckily though like I said my job kind of fits into drag too. I order all our wigs and stuff so—I ramble a lot, I’m sorry! SS: So you’ve mentioned you use it as a way to tell your story. What do you hope, in your dreams, what would come from you sharing that story with people? What would you love to see? What do you think happens? Eclipse 9 KE: My biggest thing honestly what resonates with me the most is when I have someone come up to me I mean I’ve had so many experiences and people are like I want to transition or I want to… my favorite has been… my favorite experience and I can kind of sum it up in this one experience. I was doing a show, it was a Friday night we were busy it was during Summer I think it was last year and this lady came up to me and she was like my son has expressed to me that he wants to wear makeup and he wants to dress like a girl and that he wants to possibly transition and I don’t know what to do. And I took her outside and we sat there’s like a gravel driveway kind of section and they have chairs and we sat in those chairs for almost an hour. And she was like I don’t understand it. And it can come across as harsh but I told her honestly I know you don’t understand, but you don’t have to understand to be supportive. This is a questioning time. They are questioning who they are they are questioning everything, everything. They’re experiencing this because there’s something they’re not comfortable with whether it’s themselves or whether it’s the whole puberty thing or regardless they might come out a year from now and say I don’t want to be a transgender individual. But it’s your job to guide and if they choose not to support that and if they choose to support it. It was kind of like a very eye-opening experience for me too because it was one of the first times where I was like my story can help with this. Being a drag queen and being a trans woman is already a hill to climb because RuPaul even said it recently they take additives or however he phrased it and while I understand that, that doesn’t make me less of a performer than anyone else. Nine times out of ten I wear more makeup than the guys going on stage. You know? I mean, it’s a new thing it’s a new twist and I have had people how do I come out to my family? And I’ve kind of guided and directed, but my biggest thing is that there is a trans woman that other trans individuals can talk to, because being trans is one of the most difficult things because everyone is like oh I can’t pee in a public bathroom and I wish that was the worst of my problems. I’ve recently had an experience in the last couple months of a trans woman walking around the bar when I wasn’t there and calling me by my biological name and when they announced me on stage as being in a show she’s like oh that dude. And that’s someone in my own community that knows what I’m going through. You just have to use the gender-neutral bathrooms and I’m like, that’s not my biggest problem. I’m over here getting hate from this community and then my own community and it’s like it’s hard to it’s hard to have somebody, it’s hard to have somebody that understands. That’s the thing is I have one of my really good friends Blake, I’ve known him since I’ve started. And I can tell him, what I love about him is that he’ll be the first to say I don’t know what you’re going through, but I can imagine. And I want to be that person that someone can go to and say I’m going through this and I can say this is how I dealt with it. And you know that’s… I want to be that way for everyone, but I think I am biased towards being trans because it’s an experience I’ve gone through. And I didn’t even go through most women go through and most trans men. I am recently getting to know more trans men and getting to hear their stories and I kind of in a way was lucky with my story because even though I had, I walked through fire, the fire protected me from my own internal dilemmas and it kind of put it on the back burner until I started and it was like a floodgate I didn’t even know it was there. All that self-doubt it literally clicked and I was like so that’s why I feel that’s why I feel this way. That’s why I am quiet, that’s why am this that’s why am that. It was a floodgate. Honestly sometimes I felt like I was drowning, but I pushed and I poured it into drag and drag was my outlet. And that’s one thing I want people to remember is drag is what you make of it. You can go out there and you can get all the dollars you want, get all the followers you want, but at the end of the day if you go home and you didn’t take anything personally from it then. I mean makeup washes down the drain the same way. No matter what everyone’s makeup spirals down the drain the same way it doesn’t matter who you are it still comes off and it’s still a person. And that’s Eclipse 10 the biggest thing remember let it help you let it nurture you, let it grow who you are as a person and that gets lost now unfortunately. Sorry, I got very emotional with that one. During my whole break up he had to hear everything, everything. But yeah back to the question. My biggest thing is that I just want people to know they have someone to turn to. There are days when I just don’t want to talk to people, but I kind of have to put that to the side and I guess that’s why I have a lot of people kind of, a lot of new queens come to me because I am understanding and I help people all the time. How does this outfit look? How does this look? How does that look? And it gets taxing. There are some days when I’m just like leave me alone but at the same time that’s what I fought for. SS: So you mentioned in one of your drag children is a bio queen how do you define that? KE: So she is biologically a woman, she has no intent on transitioning or anything. She is heterosexual, but she used to be, she used to work with me, and she’s worked with me since she was 16 she is now 18 so over two years. And she kind of has hinted that she would want to do something like that, like she’s hinted she would like to perform. She’s come to my shows thousands of times she was just at my house this past weekend because she just graduated high school and was like I want to come hang out. But she… I kind of… I pulled a Euphoria and I was like I want you to be in this group number with me and your sister. I want us to do a number together. So we ended up I was trying to figure out something that would give her a spotlight and give her something that would really drive her and make her get her a moment for herself. Because she has a lot of confidence Issues she’s just like I was. She doesn’t speak she’s in the corner, she’ll make an occasional joke, but then she goes and hides. But I did her makeup and we did Pitch Perfect me, her, and my other daughter Alexis. We had the choreography from the movie and everything and it was either January or February of this year and we performed. She got her own spotlight moment she jumped into the choreography with us and she did amazing. And a lot of people are like she’s a woman so she can’t do it. And I’m like, look if we are going to walk around in 2018 stuck in the ways of 1960, 70, 80 thinking drag is only men dressing up and performing as women then we are not progressing. Because I am not a man and you guys are like semi-okay with me doing it - why because I was born in a man’s body? I think drag is a performance art and it doesn’t matter the canvas. It can be any canvas, it’s what you put out at the end. And if she’s just as determined as this cis man starting over here and they’re on the same level and they’re going in the same direction you can’t be mad at her. She’s working just as hard. A lot of people… I support any drag I support any one doing it because drag kind of… the basis of drag is it’s an over-exaggerated version of a woman. That is what it previous has been. However this is 2018, we don’t, it just frustrates me. It shouldn’t be an exaggerated version of a woman. It should be and exaggerated version of yourself. Because when I go out on that stage and I perform, when I step off that stage you’re still talking to the same person. I don’t act like another person. I don’t put on another persona to do it. In a way I do because of the confidence comes out that’s because it’s the exaggerated version and there’s a self confidence that developed with it. So yeah when I wear the makeup and wear the fancy costumes and feel comfortable I’ll talk your ear off. I’ll help anyone I’ll talk to anyone I’ll get on a microphone and talk to a crowd of people and make jokes even if they’re terrible and I never learned, but I’ll do it, you know. That’s why I reached out to her I was like you’re my kid through thick and thin. She calls me mom she was at my house this weekend she’ll be like mom can we go to the store? I’m like okay fine. All my kids do, they all call me mom. It just--like I said it’s 2018. It’s time to put this exaggerated version of a woman down to rest because we have kings now, we have femme queens, we have male entertainers, all of it, I support all of them because they’re Eclipse 11 making a difference no matter what. If someone sees Nature, my drag daughter. Her biological name is Nature, we just kept it for drag, but if someone sees Nature performing and this woman is like I am so… she so comfortable, she’s so happy, she’s so proud, I want to be that. That means they got an experience that someone else couldn’t give them. Same with a king. If someone, it could be a trans man, it could be a biological woman it doesn’t matter if someone sees that and someone’s inspired by that then that king did his job, that’s something I can’t do because I’m on the opposite spectrum. Drag is about inspiration drag is about acceptance, drag is about art, and drag is about making a difference. And this old-school way of thinking it’s just about men in dresses is outdated and it’s sexist. I’m a feminist deep down so I’m like no! no! anybody should be able to do it. SS: You kind of touched on it, but what do you think inspires that kind of gatekeeping? KE: How do you mean? What is accepted and what’s not? SS: Yeah women including trans women sort of not can’t do drag, but I know you take a lot of heat in different settings. I’ve talk to a couple of bio queens or hyper queens who say the same thing and even drag kings so it… yeah. KE: It’s an old-school way of thinking it’s still people are like well of course she’s pretty she’s on hormones. And that’s like that’s not really, that’s not quite how that works. In some ways yes hormones change my body, hormones change things but it’s the same bone structure, it’s the same person. A lot of people are like well of course it’s easy for a femme queen because she already has hips and she already has boobs or whatever and it’s like… yes do men have to work harder? yes. It’s not about how much work because no matter what you’re still putting in the same amount of work. Yeah you can just put on some foam and make hips and then make boobs and then go out there, but you have the oldest form of performance you have the most acceptance. They might not have to do that, but they’re having to fight not only your inacceptance, is that a word? My inner English kid is like what? But they’re not only having to face your opinions, but they’re having to fight harder to get the approval of everyone else. Yeah maybe physically they’re doing less because they’re not putting on as much, but they’re fighting more for acceptance. You fought for that in the 70s, and the 80s. Some of you didn’t even fight for it, some of you weren’t alive… I wasn’t alive then. When I came around it was already an excepted thing it was already oaky. I grew up in it. I kind of grew with my transition it came out after I started drag. So for me it’s kind of been an easier thing. It’s also Scandals, as much as people dislike it, it’s a home and it’s a family. And I know everyone’s flaws, I know everyone’s great qualities. I know everything, I know what to say to people and what not to say to people. I’ve had five years of doing it. But that’s the thing, I’ve had five years of doing it at the same place with the same people and it just. The point is there shouldn’t be gate keeping at all. Some of it is jealousy, some of it is the fact that people can go out there and perform and people are like there is so pretty, but it’s because, oh it’s just because they’re a woman. And it’s like yes, but no. You shouldn’t be thinking like that, this should be supporting, this should be okay you look great out there. This is a sisterhood, a brotherhood, a family. This goes beyond drag too. It’s in our own community. I touched on it with trans too. It’s sad because we all sit here and we form this shield against the rest of the world and we are like we’re there for each other and we love each other, but then internally we are the first ones to turn on ourselves. It stems into everything, it stems into drag, everyday life, individual people, and it’s the same concept. I don’t even know if I answer that Eclipse 12 question. I feel like I was doing cart wheels with that answer sorry. But yeah I mean I know there is a performer named Brittany WildFrost that comes out of Hickory and she’s been doing it I think as long as I have and she keeps fighting and she keeps going. That’s an inner strength that some of these people don’t have because it is easier, it is accepted. How do I phrase this? The men in dress concept has been there for years. It predates. It’s the same thing on a grander scale, it’s easier to be a homosexual individual than a trans individual because it’s still a new thing and it’s the same concept as it’s been there longer it’s been talked about more versus still a new thing. Male entertainers, kings even, kings kind of have a bit of a jump, but even kings and bio queens, or hyper queens, or femme queens, there’s like a million names. I personally call them bad ass vixens, but they are new things and so they are still fighting for acceptance where others are a mile ahead. There shouldn’t be gatekeeping at all. And that’s saying that, and I work at Scandals, and Scandals is the most… it’s one of those places that when you’re in you’re in, but it takes a lot to get in. Unfortunately they’re still trying to come around to the concept of femme queens and kings. I mean we have kings that perform… luckily Viktor Grimm would be a great person to talk to you because he runs Kingdom and they book… they book hyper queens, they book male entertainers, they book kings. They don’t book any queens. Queens have their own thing. But Viktor worked hard and has his own show at Scandals and it’s every other Saturday and it’s an outlet for them. It’s a lot. But it’s coming around it’s just taking time. SS: Is there anything else you’d like to say that we haven’t covered or I haven’t asked you about? KE: I’ve yapped a lot. I don’t know I can’t think of anything. I mean my advice if I have any advice for anyone in any community, any individual, is to just remember who you are through everything. Don’t get buried under the fame and glory, and the followers, and the money. Honestly if you want money this is not the career for you because drag is not gunna pay the bills I don’t care who you are. Unless you were one of those fortunate few that gets on RuPaul‘s Drag Race, drag is not going to pay your bills. It doesn’t. I’ve had plenty of roommates [who thought it had]. But just remember drag is what you put into it. I advise new queens especially, if you make $50 put $25 into savings and $25 into your next costume. Put everything into it. But yeah, these things remember who you are let that guide you as a person because it is a life changing experience. I would never trade it. I don’t know that I’ll be performing forever. I don’t think I’ll be performing in my 40s but for now I’m going to hit the pavement running and I’m gunna make as much of a difference as I can. SS: Anyone who wants to come see you can find you at Scandals and anywhere else in particular that are regular places for you? KE: I travel, I go to XYZ in Knoxville once every three months. Supposedly Papermill is picking back up but I don’t know about that. This is week one, so maybe. Mostly Scandals. I know I’ll be performing at the Leaf festival in August but it’s all on my Facebook I always post where I’m going that’s the biggest place to find me because that’s where I’m at. SS: Thank you so much. KE: No, thank you, this was great.
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