Sarah Steiner: Today's date is February 16th, 2021. My name is Sarah Steiner and my other interviewer today is Travis Rountree. And we are speaking today with John Miele is was born in 1950 in Newark, New Jersey in the United States. His preferred pronouns are he/him and John has been living in Dillsboro, which is in Western, North Carolina, for 31 years. And today we're speaking in Cullowhee, North Carolina. So, thank you so much for being here with us today.
John Miele: Oh sure, thanks for having me.
SS: So, let's start off. How do you like to describe yourself?
JM: A human. [laugh] Yeah, as far as my career or what I've done in my life, or that kind of stuff. Well, I was technically trained as an illustrator. Worked in south Florida for many years and wound up teaching for almost 20 years down in south Florida. And had to get out, escaped to the mountains, had a summer home up here, bought it in mid 80s. And decided we were going to move here and start a new business, we had no idea what we were doing, none. And that's it. But I've always done illustration, all kinds. Technically I was trained as a fashion illustrator, which is nothing to do with design. It's advertising, it's selling the clothes. And people always say, oh you design clothes. No, I draw clothes, my job is to sell them no matter what they look like. And so, that's what I started off in, there were tangents and things. And this shop that we opened up 30 years ago, was sort of home accessories. And as a side line I started getting into interior design and worked with many people in this area, a lot of people in this area. Doing their homes, helping them with their houses. And I'm still doing that, in fact I'm working on three homes right now. And so, that's it but technically I say I'm retired but semi-retired. I always have my hands in something, so I can't sit still.
SS: And you said we...
JM: My partner and I, we moved up here from Fort Lauderdale. We met in 1977 and we were together 38 years until an aneurism put a stop to that and that was in 2015. And that's when I decided, all right I don't know if I want to do this by myself. And I made an arrangement with the shop, I still own the building, I live above the shop. And I love the community, we fell in love with this place immediately when we got here. Friends down there, they thought we were joking. And I had one friend said, you can't go there. He says, when they find out you're not married to a woman they're going to burn crosses on your lawn. And I'm like, this isn't Deliverance. I'm like, it's not like that, we know the area. And we were in-your-face kind of guys, we were very involved in the community. I immediately, when we opened the business, I got involved in the Merchants Association. Then we got involved in the politics of the town. I was the president of the Association, I don't know, four or five times, treasurer. I always did all the ads for everything Dillsboro did for many years. My partner become an alderman. And it was so funny because, in this little town in the mountains, we never imagines an openly gay couple and one guy gets nominated. And when the second term came up, he was the only one to get re-elected. And yeah, he did that for many years and he was responsible for a lot of stuff in this area. Getting Dillsboro on a road sign, believe it or not, which seems minor but it was very important for tourists. There was no sign on 40, directing you to get off on 27 to go to Dillsboro. I remember how absurd it was because there were 11 sign for Waynesville, 10 for Cherokee and it was like, nobody knows how to get to Dillsboro.They would always wind up in Tennessee because they kept going straight. But now GPS has solved all
SS: How long ago was that with the signage?
JM: Maybe 10 years ago. Yeah, he got that going with a big push, go talk to that guy, make him get it.
And talked to a couple of senators and representatives in the state and it happened. So, anyway I'm still
on the planning board of the town. I couldn't run for any other office because, conflicting household.
Because I had too big of a mouth. I may have lived in the south longer than I've lived in the north, but it's
the heart of a Yankee and you never get rid of this New Jersey accent. I tell people I didn't have an
accent till I moved to south Florida, and that's where I got the New Jersey accent. So, we got out of
there, south Florida, mainly because everybody else followed us down there. And we were just looking
for something just like this. And believe it or not, I guess we were fortunate, because the community...
The people around here I discovered, if they see that you want to become a part of the community and
not tell them how to run their community. Or how to do it better, as most people from out of state or
up north, do. They'll welcome you with open arms. We came in, the first thing we did, we knew they
knew about us. And small town talk will tell you, it was just so comical. I went to a board meeting first
and the mayor was talking. And he said, well I know you're both ex-Catholics, but the only Catholic
church around here... And I'm thinking, how the hell did you know, how did they know that?
So, anyway I said, you know what, we've got to go out. And we went door to door, to every shop and
every restaurant and introduced ourselves. And told them what we were doing and just said, this is it,
we're here. And it was great, it was a wonderful community, it really was. There were some, and there
were some gay couples that came in and all they did was bad mouth everyone. Because they didn't want
to follow the rules and regulations of the town. And my thing was, I like the rules and regulations of the
town and I had no problem with that. When I had my partners memorial, the entire community came
out. Besides customers, there were like over 500 people at this. I'm thinking it's going to be a little thing
of friends, I'm having a couple of bottles of wine and some snacks and it was wall to wall, it was
overwhelming. I always thought we did the best thing and we were blessed coming into this community.
There's a lot of people that can't say the same thing, I know that have come into this area and had some
trouble. But sometimes I think people come in with a chip on their shoulder and daring people to knock
it off. And it's not the way to work, especially in a very strict, well I hate to say Baptist community, but it
is primarily. And their whole lives they've been told that it's the wrong life. But I never had a problem,
never had a confrontation. And I think it's because we were willing to work with them, so we were lucky.
I'm going off without...
Travis Rountree: I think that's fantastic. I'd love to hear just more, it sounds like you embraced the
community and embraced it in several different ways. And went and talked to different business owners
and things of that nature, and you say, did you keep mostly to Dillsboro? Or did you go up to Sylva, did
you come up to Cullowhee? Or were you mostly contained to that...
JM: I was here, I was on a couple of boards here.
JM: Advisory boards, I was on advisory boards for the county. Anywhere that we felt we were needed,
and then getting into speaking to the community. The Out in the Mountains thing began with, there
were these two women that came in, they were tourists and they were looking for homes. And they
were a great couple, I'm still friends with them. And they were asking, they said, are there any women
here? And I'm like, what do you mean? And she says, we haven't met or seen any gay women. I said,
here? Are you kidding? I said, when we moved here we thought we were going to have to have sex
changes and become lesbians because all we were meeting was women. I said, we weren't meeting any guys, I thought there were no gay guys. I said, but women, I could point you in the direction of 30 of them right now. And I said, no we have lots of women friends here. And they're like, really? So, I went to our other friends who, by the way one of them, I don't know if I should mention her name. But she was a professor here for many, many years, she's retired, English professor. And her and her partner, we were very close with them and I told them the story. And she said, we ought to do a group. And she talked to Michael Hudson, the preacher at, it is Methodist I think, the church up here.
TR: Mm-hmm, Cullowhee Methodist.
JM: Yeah, they were friends with him and his wife. And he said, you could use our fellowship hall if you ever want to do anything like that. So, we put the word out and 50 people showed up and we did it once a month and that's how it started, many years ago.
SS: This was Out in the Mountains, specifically.
JM: Out in the Mountains, and that's what we called it, Out in the Mountains. And we started it and we were very active in it. We got it going but we were old folks, we were hoping some of the younger people would take over. And okay, we'll do this for a while, but somebody else has got to take it over. And so, we laid it out, we did it and it went on for a couple of years, it was massive at one point. We had people coming over from other counties and they were coming to these little meet and greets. And I remember we would say, look this is not a dating service, this is just making friends with the people within the community. And it was good, the boys and the girls didn't always get along. The boys didn't like that the girls wanted to play kumbaya in the corner and there were fights with that. But I was like, guys it's just for a couple of hours, just make the peace. And we would just all hang out and eat and talk and laugh and have Christmas parties and whatever parties we could think of. It was great for a while and then other people started taking over and we, we didn't back out of it, but we backed away and let them run it. But since then, she lost her partner, in fact just a few months before I lost mine. And so then we were like, our brains were fried at that point. But I'm glad to see it's still going, it's not going as strong, but it just needs somebody with more organizational skills. It could be fun, it really is, the younger people didn't like hanging out with all the old farts. But after a while, it was a good group, it really was. There's a couple of people that are still trying to do little meetings in here that I hear about. But I never hear of a big, like, hey everybody, let's do this. And the way we used to do it, we had a newsletter. There's something on Facebook, I haven't looked at it in like a million years.
SS: I think there's a group.
JM: Yeah. But that's how we started to communicate even better. But it's kind of died down. We even had a couple of things here, we'd mix something with a youth group that was here. They were all youth groups. Trying to think of what the name of that organization was...
SS: SAGA maybe?
JM: It might've been.
TR: Was it an LGBTQ organization on campus or was it another organization?
JM: It was before the alphabet came into that.
TR: Okay, actually it was probably Gay and Lesbian Alliance...
JM: Exactly, it was one of those. We did stuff with that and they had a party, I remember even a drag show here on campus. I want to say it was in the community, not the community, in that new cafeteria, was it up there?
TR: Was it Brown?
JM: I can't remember.
TR: Up on the hill, I don't know.
JM: I don't even remember. And it probably doesn't exist any more. Every time I come here there's another building coming up and one coming down. Okay, what other subjects do we have?
TR: So, around what time... Do you have loose dates for when you started Out in the Mountains and then maybe...
JM: Oh, you're talking almost 20 years ago.
SS: And when did you step away a little bit?
JM: Well, we backed off...
TR: You said 2015 was when your partner passed?
JM: Yeah, but it was before that. It kind of started falling apart... The person who passed, she was a great organizer. And she would get people motivated, get people going and she got cancer and that took a couple of years before she passed. And so she was out of it because she couldn't physically do it any more. And it was hard on all of us, because there's about 10 of us that are really close, we're all a family here. So, this was a strain on all of us. In fact, she was the first one to go and Bud's was sudden. So, this just knocked everybody for a loop. But you know, everybody rallied, everybody came back and it's a good group of friends. These are probably the closest friends I've had in my lifetime. And the funny part it was still mostly women. Yeah, I think about things and in the hospital when he was... He survived the aneurism for almost two weeks and they thought maybe he'd come out of it. And I was never alone in that hospital, there was never less than 10 people in that room. They were in and out constantly and straight friends too, lots of them. But it was great shoulders to lean on, because it was like that, your life turns upside down. It was just like, whoa, now what? I pulled through, just smacked myself a few times and got past it. Now, if this was three years ago, you'd be talking to a jello mold. But it was a lot, for the last 28 years of the business, it was 24/7. So, it's like, okay now I got property, business and my other side businesses all to take care of, plus the amount of paperwork. It was so weird, I'm telling you all this stuff, it doesn't make any difference. But the plan was when I turned 65, because marriage came into it and we talked about it just to make everything legal and make it easier, even though we had wills probably three inches thick. We thought if we got married, it would just make things easier, you won't have to deal with this, hopefully. But between the ages of 62 and 65 your insurance goes up, at least 25%, health insurance. And Obamacare came into it, which was great. Because I went from paying $550 a month, yeah, to $90. So, when we talked about this, I said let's wait till I'm 65.
JM: I said, when I turn 65, then we can do that, because I'll be on Medicare, we won't have to worry about it. My birthday was the August 27th, the aneurism was September fourth. So, we were even talking, because we were going on a Baltic cruise. And I said, wouldn't it be cool if we got married on the boat when we're up there, because some friends were going with us. I said, we'll get married on the boat, we won't tell anybody until it's going to happen, we'll just do it. And he was like, okay we'll talk about it then. Well, that got shot down. But it was okay, it would've just saved a lot of paperwork and lawyer’s fees. And I tell all these people, I says if you're not going to get married, get everything down on paper. I said, because it's not fun. My grandfather's voice is coming out of me, when we were young... But if this was possible, the things that are possible now, it just makes life easier for everybody. And there's always going to be people out there that don't like us for this or that. But it's easier now, especially with the younger kids, they don't care, you gay? I don't care. I'll tell you a funny story, if I may?
TR: Yeah, please.
JM: My sister, I have a kid sister, I'm 17 years older than her. So, she has a young family. And when her kids were young, and when we're talking young I'm saying 10, 9, and 7. And we were going up there to visit them and my sister, they were sitting around the table. They'd never had the conversation, the kids never asked, they don't care. And so we're having dinner and ] said, “Hey Uncle John and Bud are coming up.” And she said, “Oh good, yeah okay great.” And they live in Rochester, New York. So, kids eating and he says, “Uncle John and Uncle Bud, Uncle John and Uncle Bud.” Turns to my sister, “Is uncle John gay?” And before my sister could answer, because she's in shock now, because oh God, I have to address this. The nine year old goes, “Duh.” So, anyway that was it and so she's telling me this story. She goes, but the best part was I figured maybe he wanted to talk about it. So, I went up to his bedroom when he was doing his homework and she goes, “So do you want to talk about this?” “Talk about what?” “Uncle John.” “What about him?” “Well, this whole issue.” “It's an issue?” He says that. “I didn't know this was an issue.” And he said, “Does it bother you?” “No.” He says “I don't care.” And so, these kids, now they're young adults. He just started college and so I'm like, this is great because... Now, growing up we had very close friends, especially in Florida and they all had kids, they grew up with us. They didn't think about it, they didn't care about it. And you find a lot of people in this community don't care about it. There are some that really get bent out of shape, but thank God for the ones that they don't care. There's a couple here whose children are adults now, that I had no idea that they put us in their will as caretakers of their children if anything happened to them. And I was like, really? And she says, yeah. She says, it's a shame I didn't drop dead, you would've had the house, the kids, the whole thing. I says, and why us? She says, you're the most stable people we knew. She said, the last thing I wanted was my sisters to take care of my kids. She said, my kids adored you guys. She said that and she said, so, that's what we did. I thought that was so cool. And was like, oh okay, glad I dodged that bullet, but it was sweet. I was so touched by that and they were some of the first people we met here. Yeah, I won't say names, but it's fine.
TR: I'm considering all this stuff with my partner too, getting all that stuff. But for students maybe that are coming out, I'm 39 and so growing up too, it was very different for me [crosstalk 00:27:46]. What things would you tell... I teach in the English department too. And so, what things could you tell our students, who maybe identify as LGBTQ or even just ally, folks who are allies to LGBTQ folks, would you have any advice for them? What would you say to folks?
JM: I always felt that being myself and not being ashamed of it helped. Because when people came up to me or having a problem with me being gay, I was like, oh it's okay it's your problem, not mine. I have no problem with being gay. I'd say, that's a shame, but it's okay, you're entitled to that. I grew up in Newark, New Jersey, you had to either bluff or... I always put up a big bluff, but I could handle myself. I remember only one instance, where this guy, I can't even remember, called me a faggot. And said he was going to beat the shit out of me, and I said, well, I'm sorry, can I be frank? And I said, okay, I said but that's a big chance. And he said, why? I said, what if this faggot beats the shit out of you, then what? And he pondered that and backed away. It was the truth. It'd be a great start for me, not for you. I can't even remember... I mean, it's a term that didn't address my sexuality, it was just a slur that they would throw at you. So, it never really bothered me. But then again, when you're young and confused, because I was not so much confused... Well, like you said when you grew up, but when I grew up it was, all right this is what you're supposed to do. So, you went through that process and I did, and I dated women, I was engaged to a woman and lived with her for a long time. But it was like, this is still pulling me over here and I thought, all right, things were happening and I had to make a decision what I was going to do. And I did it, it was ugly. And probably it was what got me to move out of state. Because family was having an issue with it. Now, I had not told my parents yet and I'm laughing because that's another funny story I'll have to tell you too. And I thought, well shoot. And I had a friend that parents were building a condo down in Florida and he says, I got to go down and check on it. They said they're done, my parents want me to go check and see if it's all done. He goes, do you want to take a ride? And I was on a lay-off, I was on a temporary lay-off from work. And I said, sure. So, we went down and while we were down there sunning ourselves on the beach, I saw an ad in the paper. And I called up on it as a joke and they hired me on the spot and offered me more money than I was making in Newark. So, I thought, well, okay. I thought, yeah this might be a good thing. So, I got away from that and that's how I wound up going to Florida.
SS: When was that?
JM: 1973. I was hired by Ethan Allen, they were opening Ethan Allen stores for the first time in south Florida. This guy who was a retired owner of Hecht's Department Store in D.C. He retired, went down there, got bored out of his brains and decided to open up those down there. There were six stores and my job was to, he wanted to set the stores up, but every room had a theme. It had to look like somebody was living there. So, it would be single guy's living room, married couple's this room, or retired couple's bedroom in this style and that style. But every room had to be set up that way and I was like, sure this sounds like fun, what the heck. And that's what I did, I did that for only a short while but it was great, was a great job, nice people, lovely people. Gave me the keys any time I wanted to use their Park Avenue apartment when I went up north. I was 23, 24 years old, I was like, really? And it was really right on Park Avenue, it was just really a fabulous apartment. And they were great to me, they really were. But anyway, went off on another tangent there. The funny part I was going to tell you is, in the growing up I could always handle myself. When my father was young he was a professional boxer and which we're going to lead into the other funny story, is coming up with my parents. So, my father taught me to defend myself and I always remember his words, he says, you have about one second to size up the situation. If he's built like you, then you got a great shot, if he's bigger than you and out weighs you, look for something to hit him with. And I was like, okay, I could do that. And so what was really cool, was after the move to Florida, my mother said something to one of sisters. And said, John's always mentioning this guy down there. And she goes, I think your brother might be gay, what do you think? And my sister was like, oh I have no idea, mom. You better talk to ma, you better get on the phone, she's asking too many questions. And I'm like, all right, I'll take care of it.
JM: So, I call her up and I said, yeah. She goes, well don't tell your father, he's too macho, I don't think he can take it. And I'm like, Ma I'm not going to lie, don't worry about it, we'll figure this out later. So, months later my sister goes to visit my parents and she's there for the weekend and they always went to church on Sunday. And this Sunday my father said he didn't feel well, he had a headache and let my mother go by herself. And she wasn't even out the door, my father turns to my sister and, I don't know what to do, your mother's on this kick. She thinks your brother's gay, she's driving me nuts. He goes, all she's doing, asking and wondering and the whole thing. She goes, oh Dad he is. Oh shit, don't tell your mother, she won't be able to handle it. [all laugh]
JM: So, this became comical. So, I was coming up the next Christmas and I was going up there and that's when we had the big talk. It was so funny, it was too funny, but my father had a better way of dealing with it than my mother did. In fact when my father met Bud, they were like best pals instantly. They just hit it off and that was it, I lost my partner, there he is off with his older boyfriend. They would go off together and just like, okay, whatever. But they were, my father adored Bud and it was great. And I love that I have that story, because there's a lot of people that don't have that. And I hear it, not so much any more, but with people my age or even a little younger. It's tough and I just wish for them what I had, and that was great. Because there's enough crap to put up with without having to... I always tell people, sometimes I seem a little crass and I'll get carried away and somebody might say something like, hey, hey, hey. And I say, oh by the way, have you met me? This is John, I don't edit. This is it, you don't like it, you don't have to be around me. And so, that's it, all right, what else you want to know?
SS: So, you came here to start a business, can you tell us about your history working and owning businesses in the area?
JM: Oh it was great. Well, they told us when we said, what kind of store? Because at that time, there was only potters and crafters. And we did a very high-end home accessories store. And we had a gallery in there, we were known for carrying water colorists. Water colorists that didn't reproduce their artwork. And so I had about seven artists, including myself, and our water colors were in there. And we had everything, mirrors, lamps, rugs, any small item, not big pieces of furniture. Maybe a couple of little antiques and stuff and that's what we were known for. And that's what people came for, and when the locals said, you ain't going to make it here, nobody likes that kind of store, they're all gone now. And we were there for all those years, because people love the idea of it because it was not like the other stores. And we called ourselves relief squad. They would come in and say, oh thank God, not another blue duck with a bow. And that's what we did, we had interesting objects and we made a really good business for ourselves. I loved doing it and we did it together. I was the design person and Bud, well he was a fish out of water because he cut hair. And he did it and he cut hair in the area, like one day a week just to keep his hands in it. But he was like a fish out of water in the beginning, but he caught on. But he was great with people, I forget you a week after. People would be walking in the store and he'd come up behind me and goes, these are really good customers, they buy a lot of stuff here. And I'd say, they are? Okay, give them a big hello. I would never remember anyone. If they tell me what they bought, then I would remember them. I actually had people calling us from, most of the people were from Florida. And they would have summer homes up here or be visiting and they would send me pictures, email. Look at this fireplace, tell me what to do with it. Okay, you could do this, this and that. Okay good, send it back. And I would send stuff down. So, we had a lot of things shipped to Florida. Yeah, it was nice, it was a good little business. I was hoping somebody would come along and buy it all up, we put the word out, we were soliciting other gay couples with design backgrounds. Don't you want to move to the mountains?
We didn't even think about it, it was just the way we worked. And the homes that I did here, every once in a while I do them, they refer me to someone else, that's how I got one of the three I'm working on now. Is a client I did 25 years ago and she was like, you need to help this friend of mine. So, I'm working with her. But I don't see myself going anywhere, I do love the area and I know the whole community. And they know me, so it's a nice life, it really is. Dillsboro in its hey day, we always used to say, it's very accurate when they would say that 10% of the population's gay. I said, 10% of the people in Dillsboro that own businesses were gay. And we were being catty, and straight people were saying things like, there's another gay couple over here, oh yeah, you bring them in, we bring them out. Come to Dillsboro. It still is, it's great around here. I like it because it's a lot simpler. And what's nice about it, is if I need big crowds, I can drive for 45 minutes, be on a plane and be in Newark in a couple of hours, walking up the streets. And so the airport here makes it very convenient. And I like that it's a laid back community. I'm at the point now, my building's paid off, I don't have to work anymore if I don't want to. But I do it just to keep myself busy and play tennis five days a week.
TR: Sounds like a good life, honestly.
JM: It is and I wish it for everyone. What else haven't we tapped into?TR: I don't know, I think we've got a lot. We really like the stuff about the... We've been thinking about local business owners in the area and also just the Out in the Mountain stuff was very important. Because we're looking for a specific, not individuals, but also groups in the area. One of the things that we're doing, one of the other folks doing, she’s actually in the English Department with me, Erin Callahan, does a lot of linguistic stuff.. So, she's looking for groups of folks to talk with and just to see, with your northern accent, but also with other accents in the area. How those have formed and what speech patterns she can look at. So, she may be in contact with you or with some other folks as well.
JM: Have you been in touch with any other people that were involved?
TR: With Out in the Mountains?
SS: Not yet.
TR: We've gotten some names, but not a whole lot.
SS: We've got some folks queued up, but you're the first one we've spoken to.
TR: Yeah, you're the first one ]
SS: Jill Ellern works here with...
JM: Yeah, Jill, I've known Jill for years.
SS: I'll reach out with her at some point soon.
JM: At one point... I don't care.
JM: They might care. No, Herb.
SS: Herb, yeah.
JM: Because he was very involved with it after we left. And he tried to keep it alive, Herb Potts.
SS: Sure yeah, I've got that name on my list.
JM: Okay, and his partner, husband, Chris Wilcox who owns City Lights Books.
TR: I literally live two blocks from there, so I see Chris a lot. it's such a great book store.
JM: Oh yeah, it is, it's a great book store. We always tell people, buy from them we want to keep them here. There's no such thing as book stores any more.
TR: And of course Pat and Bern with the café. We'd like to talk to them.
JM: Ray of Ray's Florist.
JM: I’ve been friends with Ray. He's one of the first people I met here, him and his whole family. In fact I was just with him and his mother yesterday.
TR: We've talked to John Wermuth down Sylva.
JM: Yes, I know of him. And I've been in his shop, but I've never been introduced to him or introduced myself. It always seems that there were too many people in the store and I don't know how comfortable he would feel with those kind of conversations. I'm trying to think of what other business people, there's another one, but the one guy just passed from COVID as a matter of fact, in Dillsboro. There's Mona Gersky that own the Moondancer Real Estate. Who else is left in town? At one point there were so many. I'm trying to think of other businesses. Nichols House, but they're down in Florida right now.
SS: They have a lot of stuff in there.
JM: I know it's a dangerous place. Me, who has more stuff than you can imagine and I never left there empty handed. It would be like, yeah I don't need this but boy that sure is cool, I think I have to have that. Yeah, it's a dangerous place. Gosh, I'm blank.
SS: We can follow up later.
TR: Yeah, if you think of any other ones after, we can...
JM: Yeah, most of the other people that I know are doctors.
TR: Which is good too.
JM: Midwives, PA's, but they're all retirement age right now. You'd be surprised what's in this community, it's sort of like my tennis group. Anything you need, I said I've got everybody right here. You need an insurance man, investment broker, chiropractic surgeon? We have anything you need, need tires? See that guy right there. Shoot, there was more things that I wanted to talk about but I'm drawing a blank.
TR: Anne's going to probably follow up with you and I know that we would love to have even more specifics, aimed questions after we...
TR: This was phenomenal.
JM: Oh good, I hope you're accomplishing what you needed.
TR: Yes, you're a great story teller by the way. It's awesome, I was...
JM: It's all those years of teaching..
TR: That's great.
JM: I have stories I've got plenty of. I could tell you things…I don't think we want to put it on this. But things that happen in having a retail business. Yeah when we close this off, I'll tell you another one real quick.]. Oh you want to hear the story? Okay, before you have to go. What time is it? Oh, it's almost the end of the day.