• Format
  • Transcripts
  • Interviews
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  • Text
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  • Duration: 27 pages (transcript)
• Source institution
  • Western Carolina University
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  • HL_MSS01-04_Moody_Cunningham_2003-03-26_transcript

James Cunningham 1 Name of interviewer: Susan Moody Name of interviewee: James P. Cunningham Date of interview: March 26, 2003 Length of interview: 1:22:21 Location of interview: Macon County, NC START OF INTERVIEW Susan Moody: Today is March 26, 2003 and I am at the home of Mr. James Cunningham. This is the interview of concerning the Nantahala Power and Light oral history project at Western Carolina University. Mr. Cunningham, do I have your permission to record this interview? James Cunningham: You do. SM: The first thing I want to say before we start is I want to thank you for taking the time today to talk with us and share your knowledge, of what you, remember and what you know about how the light company worked and operated and how the community accepted rural electrification in this area. I'm going to start with some very basic questions for you. If you could give me your full name. JC: James [inaudible] Cunningham SM: Senior? JC: Yeah, I’ve got a Junior. SM: And your date of birth? JC: 21st of February, 1915. SM: 1915. And where were you born? JC: Right here in this in this house. SM: Right here in this area, here. JC: Right outside on the old Murray road, right outside of Franklin. Esther Cunningham: Murphy. SM: Murphy Road, I’m sorry. Murphy Road. EC: In this house. SM: In this house?! Oh OK. So your mother and father, was… JC: My grandfather’s house. SM: Built the house? JC: No he bought it from his brothers. SM: Oh, ok sir. JC: It’s been in the family for [inaudible] SM: Oh my goodness. EC: It’s been in the family since before the Civil War. James Cunningham 2 SM: Oh, ok. Well since you lived in this area, when you got ready to go out and get a job, why did you go to the Nantahala. Well then it wasn’t the Nantahala Power and Light company. JC: It was, yes. SM: And why did you apply there for employment? JC: Well…[inaudible]. And I was the first one hired after we came to Franklin. [But they had been here ten years, they just hadn’t done anything]. SM: Oh, ok. JC: [Inaudible]. They had started Nantahala Dam, over there, working over there. Before the depression before they had to shut down. We didn’t know when they were going to start. [Inaudible]. [Lines to these places, from Sylva to Andrews to Nantahala Lake]. SM: So, was that the department that you worked in, the line. JC: I was with the line [crew]. For two and a half years. SM: For two and half years. Did they advertise for employment or did you just know that they were…? JC: No, [I asked for the job]. SM: Could you tell me who your supervisor was as part of the line crew? JC: Henry Turpin [was my foreman]. And he only had three men, [I being the fourth]. SM: Oh, ok. JC: But, [inaudible]. I worked under every president the company ever had. SM: Oh, you worked under everyone they had. Gosh. SM: Well when you when you left to go to work in the morning, where did you report to work? JC: Franklin. SM: So you had to go to an office that was in Franklin? JC: [Inaudible]. SM: Behind the Courthouse? SM: I don't know very much about what a line crew does. Could you tell me what an average day's work was? JC: Well, we had to do everything. We had to cut the [road away], [inaudible], dig the holes, set the poles, frame them, [string the line], tie it to the houses, that was it. SM: Well when you… JC: We did it all [laughter]. SM: You did all of it [laughter]. SM: When you saying cutting the lines, now what kind of equipment and all did you use? James Cunningham 3 JC: We didn't have any equipment; everything was done by hand. Hard work. We carried the poles to the place [we didn’t have any way of getting them there], we picked them up and carried them. SM: Hand toted the poles? JC: [Inaudible], but we only had small poles. I believe the heaviest [we carried was a 44[ inaudible]]. After that [we’d use some farmer], if it was close to a farm [we’d use his horses], give him 50 cents to pull ‘em up there. Or steers, now we used steers. SM: Steers also. Oh. SM: So after you got the pole out there and you had cleared the right away and I'm assuming that means that you chopped down the trees. Did your supervisor tell you where the right away was going to run? Or was it already marked out? JC: It was surveyed. It was always surveyed. [Inaudible]. SM: Well if you were clearing the right away and you were going like over the mountains, was it harder to lay poles up the mountain or as it came down the mountain? Or was it about… JC: Well, it wasn’t no two alike. [I guess that’s what I enjoyed about it, there wasn’t no two days alike.] Every day was a challenge. [Inaudible]. We had to do it by hand. SM: Oh, okay I see. It was kind of like, when you got there you decided how it was gonna be done according. Oh. Well once you dug the hole, how far down the hole have to go to put [that in]? JC: [It was according to the length of the pole. How high it was.] 30-foot pole, it would be five feet. 35, five and half, 40, was six feet. For every five feet you would gain [six inches on the pole.] SM: Oh, ok. JC: [Inaudible.] SM: Did the poles come already made? I mean when you picked them up, they were already cut and shaped. JC: That’s right, yeah. In fact, the first line [was built for Franklin, out in rows and sections] was out to here, to this house right down yonder. SM: Oh that was the first one? JC: This was the first line in Franklin. SM: Oh, my goodness! JC: But a neighbor of mine and me, we cut the poles, we had to get the poles for it. That’s when I realized [inaudible]. [Laughter] JC: And I had two brothers that worked for Duke in Winston Salem, but I couldn’t leave home. SM: Oh, ok. So, you had… JC: [You go to the country]. Well whatever it is. There’s seven of us and the youngest one has to take care of the family. James Cunningham 4 SM: So you were the youngest? JC: Yeah, I was the youngest. I had to stay here and take care of the family. SM: Of your mother father. SM: So this line was the first one out of Franklin and you actually cut some of the poles for that line? JC: I cut here to the city limits and delivered them. SM: How did you deliver them? JC: We had a truck. We would [bring them] with a truck and a trailer. [Inaudible]. SM: What kind of poles [inaudible]? JC: Chestnuts! SM: Oh, ok. Did they last longer than most? JC: Back then, they did. SM: Oh, ok. EC: We had something to kill the chestnut trees back over fifty years ago and [inaudible]. You see, one reason I’m such a part of this is, we were married January 22nd in 1939, and that’s about the same time [inaudible] [he went to work for the power company]. SM: Now, you did tell me that you had gone to work in 1939. What day did you tell me? JC: The seventh day of February. SM: The seventh day of February. So you married just a little bit before. JC: Two weeks before. EC: It was all in the plans. [Inaudible.] SM: Oh, ok. JC: I worked 44 hours a week, I made sixteen dollars a week. SM: At sixteen dollars a week for forty-four hours. JC: [Inaudible.] Now you can’t get around [inaudible] for sixteen dollars an hour. [Laughing] [Laughter] SM: That was something else I was going to ask you about, laying wire, when you said that once you got the pole up you had to pull the wire. How would you… I mean how was that done it? Was that hot wire like you said? JC: It was… [we didn’t make it all] back then. SM: Oh, ok. JC: We just laid it up on our shoulder and pulled it. SM: So you manually stretched the wiring and climbed up the pole? JC: That’s right. Laid it up on the pole and as we come by [inaudible]. EC: Sometimes it’s one mountain top all down to the valley to another mountain top and then letting James Cunningham 5 them carry their [inaudible]. SM: Now how far was each pole from [each other]? JC: That was the lay of the land. SM: The lay of the land. So there was no set distance between. So, you may be pulling wire a good long way. How big was the wire? JC: It was very small. SM: Oh, ok. JC: Number four wire; which was very small. SM: Number four, ok. JC: See we didn’t have any customers [over here]. [Inaudible]. SM: Well, as you got to work every day, laying the wire and putting the poles up, were people anxious to get the electricity? JC: They was tickled to death. SM: They were tickled to death. [Laughter] SM: They were out there rushing y’all on. [Laughter] JC: [Inaudible] a dollar and a quarter. SM: A dollar and a quarter? [Inaudible.] SM: As you were putting the wiring in… I know you mentioned something to me about having to run it to the house. So y’all took it from the pole that came by the house to their house. JC: To their house and then they wired their own house. SM: Was it like today, where they had these big electric boxes outside the house that you wired it to? JC: No. It was [smaller boxes] and all we had was just [a little] drop cord hanging down [inaudible]. SM: Oh, ok. JC: See we didn’t have a refrigerator here back then. You were a millionaire if you had a refrigerator. SM: Oh, if you had a refrigerator, you were a millionaire. [Laughter] SM: When you went to put in the lights to the people's place, did you have to get a right of away to up to their property line? Or did they have to provide the… JC: They provided a right away. [Inaudible.] But the company give ‘em a dollar [to make it legal] I guess. SM: To make it a legal exchange. So, they gave the right away to the land in exchange for a dollar. James Cunningham 6 SM: You told me that when you started work here that the company was very small and there was only two… did you tell me, Franklin and… JC: We had an office in Andrews. SM: Andrews! Ok. JC: We had a service man and a man to run the office, that’s all there was there. Before it was there, we did everything. [Inaudible.] JC: [Inaudible.] SM: Now, when you said the plants, you mean the power plants that they were building? JC: That’s right. SM: Now, that’s what I was going to ask you about. Right after you began work they started construction on the big dams and things. Could you tell me something? JC: I don’t know. That’s it, I don’t remember the date. SM: Ok. JC: I believe I had been working about two years before they started building the dams. SM: Ok. JC: Must have been [inaudible]. I’m not sure about that. SM: Yes, sir. You are absolutely right. That’s when one of the ones were completed, I think. So, it was right in that time period. Do you remember anything about the company’s excitement or anything about putting in these? JC: Oh, yes! Look we already had a line built from Sylva to Cullowhee. SM: Ok. JC: We just [inaudible]. [Inaudible.] There was a house to board the people and the flood came and washed that house away that night. SM: Oh, my goodness! JC: And [I don’t know how many lives they lost there]. But there was one man that they never did find from that flood. SM: So, now that was the company house that they put there, that was housing the people that were working on the big dam. And there was a big flood during the night? JC: Yes, I don’t remember the date of that. SM: Yeah, I remember something about the big flood and it was right during that time. JC: Yeah, [inaudible]. SM: During the time when they were starting to build the dams and all, did they advertise for people in the area to work construction? James Cunningham 7 JC: They didn’t have to. SM: They didn’t have to? JC: No. They didn’t have nothing. They knew. SM: Ok. JC: They just stood there and wanted a job. SM: Oh, ok. JC: But the people that drove those [tillers] and stuff, came from New York or something. SM: Oh, ok. JC: [Inaudible]. [Laughter] EC: I didn’t have television and not many people had radio. And the language of the different areas was very different. SM: Yes, ma’am. JC: And we had people from here that had been to New York, [roll tongues up there] and they’d roll tongues. [Inaudible]. SM: How did that happen? JC: Some kind of machinery [inaudible]. SM: Oh, that’s sad! SM: As you were working in your job…and you mentioned something about boarding in Andrews. Did you to…were you gone from home sometimes during the week? JC: Nearly all the time. SM: Oh. EC: A week at a time. JC: When we worked in Cullowhee we had to go over [from] Sylva. See we used to have an old [open truck] to ride in. That’s all we had. SM: Oh, ok. JC: We didn’t have nothing to work with or anything. {Inaudible]. An open truck in zero weather, we had a little tarp over it to keep from freezing to death. SM: Gosh! [Laughing] SM: So, y’all worked year round laying… JC: Oh, yes! EC: And you bought your own tools, didn’t you? SM: You had to buy your own tools too? Oh, gosh! SM: Well, during the time that you worked, when the war came along, were you drafted or did you James Cunningham 8 have to go to… JC: No, the president of the company back then had taken me out of the line crew. SM: Oh, ok. JC: …And put me doing service work. I [inaudible] and the company sold refrigerators and [stoves] and stuff, and I worked on that. [I was the only man inside] Asheville that worked on refrigerators and stuff. SM: Oh, ok. JC: The president of the company went to the [board here] and told them [inaudible]. [Inaudible]. He said “if y’all can’t get it done, I’ll go to Washington.” SM: You’ll go to Washington and get it done? Oh, ok. EC: [Inaudible]. Our first child was born May 6, 1942 [inaudible]. And it was right after Brenda was born and his number was called, the draft number. And that’s when he had to go the [president]. SM: Mr. Ford? JC: Mr. Ford was the president and he had an office in Washington D.C. and he was the [lobbyist] for our board. SM: Oh! JC: So, he spent more time nearly in Washington than he did here. SM: [Laughing] He stayed up there a lot. JC: And he had a [inaudible]. SM: What kind of car did he drive? Do you remember? JC: Well it was a pretty big sized car. But I don’t remember what it was. [Laughter] SM: Well, and I think he was right. I think that you probably were more valuable staying in [inaudible]. EC: [inaudible]. JC: We had long days here. Well, now the furthest I went was Sylva. Jared [inaudible] and [inaudible] would have a refrigerator go bad and I would have to go over there and work on them in Murphy. SM: Well, when you said that you were transferred from the line crew to the service, and you wired houses. So, then people would actually the light company for you to come out… JC: Oh, yes! SM: And how would… JC: I forgot, but I believe they charged 50 cents an hour. SM: 50 cents an hour to wire a house? For an electrician? Ok! [Laughing] Unknown: [Inaudible]. Now we have so many traffic lights and [vague] streets. [Inaudible]. Which you know the population was very small back then. There was nothing to Franklin, but just the main street. JC: This little plant…The Franklin plant, we had [two meters on it] [inaudible] means the power comes to Franklin. James Cunningham 9 SM: Uh huh. JC: The other [inaudible]. We was sending more power to [inaudible]. SM: Oh, ok. So Franklin wasn’t using a lot of electricity. JC: No, it wasn’t. EC: Well I’m so proud of [inaudible]. He just seemed to be born with the gene to do math, and I mean high math. When I studied trigonometry in college, my son was studying trigonometry in high school. And he asked me a question and I said “oh I don’t, unless it’s so and so.” And he said “that’s the word I was looking for.” And there’s words in trigonometry and I’m pretty good with words and my son needed the words you know. And I gave it to him and he said “mama [inaudible].” And he can do this in his head faster than you and I can do it on paper. And we always used to call him [Dagwood] because he could and one of the power company men said he never saw anybody that could figure… JC: Load on a power line. SM: Load on a power line. JC: Power line figure out on a [inaudible]. SM: On a [inaudible], oh my goodness! [Laughter] EC: He would figure them out in his head mostly. He was so good at that math and science and that was just natural. And he said he was [inaudible] with repairing major appliances and he said he just always figured, anything anybody else could build, he could just take it apart and see how it was built and put it back together; which he did. SM: Oh, my gosh!! JC: I didn’t have any directions or anything to go off of. SM: No directions. SM: And that was one of my questions I was going to ask when you said you wired the houses. Did you have to be certified or anything? I know that now… JC: Yes, the company had a license. SM: Ok. JC: And I worked under the company’s license. SM: Under the company’s license but it was all mostly self-taught. When you would go into a home to wire it, what was the first things that you would wire? And how would it… JC: Well, we would just look the house over and figure out how much wiring it would take. [Inaudible] the house would just have two or three in the whole house. SM: Oh, ok. JC: They didn’t have much back then. SM: Well, I had asked you about the service in World War II, and you said that you were maybe exempted. Were there other people in the power company that also received exemptions? James Cunningham 10 JC: Well, there were a few. Most of them had to go. SM: Well… JC: But there wasn’t many working. SM: That’s what my question was. If they left were they replaced by other people in the community? So y’all had to take up… JC: We had to take up the slack. EC: You did have to [inaudible]. JC: [Inaudible.] SM: During your time that you worked at Nantahala, did you ever think… I know that you said you were promoted once; did you receive other promotions or… as far as you went from the line company to… JC: They brought Bryson City [in]. [Inaudible] and they built that house. SM: Yes, sir. JC: We moved in on Friday and they called me [upstairs] and said, “we bought Bryson City out” and said it was such a mess. He said we are giving you two men and we are sending them down there to straighten it out. [Inaudible]. They said we want you to have a job when the baby’s born. JM: Oh, so they were going to move you to Bryson City. JC: So, I went down there and… [TVA] had just started Fontana down there and the first [mail] man…his office was there and [inaudible]. He tried to get me to go down there. He said, “I’ll give you the top electrician job at Fontana Dam, if you’ll go.” I said well [I may go]. [Laughter] And I come back when the baby was born and they brought me back up here for two weeks and the man that was here, they sent down there to take my place. SM: Oh. JC: And the feller’s already down there and his wife says [Jim’s gone, so you won’t see him no more]. So, I don’t know. Anyway I was supposed to stay two weeks [inaudible]. And the second week they called me upstairs and they said ‘this man is here taking your place and he’s not doing too good of a job and a customer complained. We [inaudible] move you back to Franklin.” SM: You were too valuable here! [Laughter] JC: But I told her, I said now if we’re going to have to move, we’re gonna have to go. I said I’m going to take that job [at Fontana]. They would triple the wages and everything. Unknown: And I would go but he didn’t want to leave his parents and we had just built a house. SM: So, you decided not to go? JC: I didn’t go. SM: And you stayed at the job you had in the service department? EC: And one of the main reasons were [inaudible]. SM: So the company provided good benefits? What kind of benefits did they have? James Cunningham 11 JC: Well, [sick leave] and every so often you would get a [weeks] vacation. [Inaudible]. EC: You worked at the company for 38 years. JC: Yeah, 38 years [inaudible]. SM: So, they provided health insurance in that time? And things like a retirement plan. Ok. Well, during the time that you did…you just told me about Fontana Dam tempting you to go. Was there any other time that you decided to or you thought you might just want to quit working for the company? JC: Well, not exactly. It was the first air conditioning that had ever come to Franklin and I had [repaired it] [inaudible] new refrigeration. [Inaudible]. And all the engineers from the company, they went over there and worked on it. It took about two weeks and they couldn’t get it to work. And the main engineer came and said “you go over there and get that thing to work.” And I said “well wait just a minute, [inaudible] [this may be something I can’t do this time]. I said I have never even heard of it. I said I’m gonna have to go over there and see it. So, he sent me over there and I looked at it. I checked the refrigeration and I said there is nothing wrong with the refrigeration. The refrigeration is good. I said it’s her water that’s the problem. [Inaudible]. That water comes through the [air con] and you can either heat it or cool it. So, I had taken the heat out of the refrigeration and sent it upstairs. But it was summer time, and I reversed that refrigeration to go the other way [inaudible]. So I put air conditioning in it too. Well, when I went over there I checked the well and the water was the problem. I found out exactly how much water that, that well produced. I had to have so much and so much pressure to get it to work. SM: Oh, to get it to work! Ok. So, it wasn’t that the water was bad, there wasn’t enough pressure behind it and enough water to make it work! JC: Altogether. SM: Oh, ok! JC: I found out how much water it had and well I had a little more water than it actually called for. SM: Oh, you had too much water? JC: So, I just [inaudible]. And there were switches everywhere. And this switch over here [inaudible]. Somebody would have to come down and [inaudible] the switch. [Inaudible]. [Laughter] SM: Oh! They still [stored] up over there! JC: So, I said all you need is a high pressure [inaudible] switch. [Inaudible] I said when the pressure kicks back up, you can turn it off. I said nobody has to come see about it. SM: That’s for the well? [Inaudible]. SM: That’s how wells work now. I know that…they work on high/low. [Inaudible] set it in. JC: So, I did all that. Well, the third day I went to the engineer and [inaudible]. He said “what’s the matter?” I said, “I had to put two [inaudible] in it, to regulate my water.” I said, “I got it regulated. [Inaudible] and the sink was dripping water and I said it just wore out in no time with all that pressure.” I said, “it won’t last long!” I said, “that’s all I can do.” He said, “[inaudible].” James Cunningham 12 And all that piping and everything, I had it hooked up to hoses, that you hook a washing machine up to. [Inaudible]. So he come out the next morning and he had two washing machines, and he said that [hose] and that washing machine will let so much water through with this much pressure. [Inaudible]. SM: It’s still working. Golly! JC: Well, in about two weeks, I had come in one day and [inaudible.] SM: Okay. This is side B of tape 1. JC: He introduced himself and says I’m with the company. [Inaudible]. He said, “is there any way we can get you to come work for us?” And I said, “no, I can’t leave [home].” He said well I’ve got three sold in Atlanta. Would you just go down there and show them how to install them?” [Laughter] JC: I said, “now I might be interested in that”. I come home and told her that we can make a little extra money there. And then I got to thinking, [inaudible]. And that’s just asking for trouble. So, I turned it down. SM: So, you had figured out how to fix the air conditioning at the doctor’s house here in town, and then they wanted you to go and install all the others, so they’d work. [Laughing] EC: He wouldn’t leave Franklin. He was glued to Franklin. JC: Well another thing was… it was 285,000 [BTU’s] [inaudible]. And when I got through with it, I put my 313,000 [BTU’s]. See I increased it. SM: Oh, my goodness!! JC: Is the way I had [inaudible]. The next spring in [inaudible]. He said “is there any way of getting the air conditioning done?” I said, “sure.” [Inaudible]. He had a discharge in the water [inaudible]. One day, he come to me and said ‘[any way I] can put that out in the yard. I said well sure! It’s all under pressure. [Laughter] JC: So he watered his lawn. SM: With the stuff coming through the air conditioner. Isn’t that great? JC: That was the first air conditioner, I had ever heard of. Took me three days to…[inaudible]. EC: [Inaudible]. SM: That’s amazing! I would still be sitting there trying to figure out how to turn the switch. Why isn’t it working?! [Laughing]. SM: Well, after the war now, I had this man come to me, he was a salesman but he was an engineer, a refrigerator engineer [studying]. [Inaudible]. Anyway he come in and he said [I’m going into the] air conditioning in Charleston, South Carolina. And he said, “I’ll make you a deal.” I said what’s that? He says, “I’ll [inaudible]. Give you half interest in it and I’ll do all the laying out.” You know you have to figure out the size of the room, to figure out how much air conditioning you have to have. James Cunningham 13 JC: That’s right. JC: And he said, “I’ll do all that, if you will just install it.” [Inaudible]. And I said I can’t help you. And he said, “well, do you know anyone else?” I said, I have two brothers in Winston Salem and they’re doing the same thing I’m doing. SM: Oh, ok. So… JC: And he went down there [inaudible]. And they was older than I was. SM: Did they have the same type of ability, to pick things up like that? I mean and understand how the air conditioning works. JC: I don’t know. SM: Oh, ok. I was just wondering how they learned to make the air conditioner work. [Laughing] EC: And in those days there wasn’t an opportunity to [inaudible] study physics and those things that you really need. So he hadn’t had any of that. Occasionally he would come in and [read a book to understand it]. It was recommended by [inaudible] engineers. [Inaudible]. JC: You don’t forget it once you understand how it works. That’s amazing! SM: When the war broke out in the area, did you notice any changes in the power company itself? Did it just…for the war or was there any changes made in the power company? JC: Well, yeah. We lost some men [inaudible]. But most of them were operators in the power company back then. [Inaudible]. But anyway, we lost one man on the line crew. [So that gave us three [inaudible]]. And I was doing service work and I’d help them. SM: Oh, ok. So you were working on both… JC: That’s right. And so, I was the one who was called out when the power went out. I had to get the power back on. SM: Oh, ok! JC: And so, they rationed gas. And about the first week, I ran out of gas [from running to town]. And I told them I can’t get gas. I can’t get down there. He said well you can get gas [what’s wrong with that truck?] [Inaudible]. EC: We had one car, a beat up Plymouth and I didn’t have any means of[inaudible] and I couldn’t buy groceries or anything. SM: Oh, 'cause he was using it to go… So they gave you gas and a truck then after that? JC: They gave me the truck. And when I retired, I was still driving the truck. I never did quit. [Laughter] JC: But, see I had to read meters back then. SM: Oh, ok! JC: In Cashiers and part of Sylva and all the big [gaps]. SM: So, once you were doing that part…you were reading the meters and things got a little more established. Were there problems? Did the lights go out a lot? I mean was there… James Cunningham 14 JC: In lighting, yes! That’s the most trouble we had. SM: So lightning would strike the… EC: [Inaudible]. JC: A lot of the times the old poles… next morning they would call me and the power would be out and the transformers [inaudible]. SM: Oh, now is the transformer that big thing that… JC: Yeah, that hangs on the pole. SM: What does that do? JC: It reduces the voltage down till you can put it in the house. SM: Oh, ok. So, you would have been up working on the poles during the… for lines. And then during the night after you came down the… JC: Yeah, I’d be in the middle of the storm… SM: Oh, my goodness!! JC: The kids around here would call me the Thunder Man. SM: The Thunder Man! Oh, ok. [Laughing]. You were up on the telephone pole while it was going on. I mean the light pole not the telephone pole. JC: Now, you can’t get them to get out. Unknown: Sometimes he would have icicles hanging to his clothes in ice storms. And they work in the rain and the [thunder]. They don’t do that anymore, like they did then. JC: It was rough back then! SM: Oh, my gosh! JC: But there was a man standing there [wanting your job]. SM: Oh, ok. EC: And when they rode in the back end of those trucks [inaudible]. And we had a five county service [inaudible]. And if it rained, cold weather, bad weather, like it said [inaudible] they went just the same. The weather didn’t stop them. JC: We worked in the rain. SM: Just like it was sunshine. JC: [Inaudible], at Sylva at the paper plant they had to run a line over their head. That was before I [inaudible]. SM: Yes, sir. JC: We would have to go over there and ask [inaudible]… make the bolts rust and stuff [inaudible]. we would have to go over there every year and change the bolts. [Inaudible]. He said, “why don’t you get those men out of the rain? Come on out from there and get in the dry. He said it’s too dangerous to be working there.” [Inaudible] and said that feller did the wrong thing coming over here telling my men to get done out of the rain. He says who ever heard of quoting because of the rain. James Cunningham 15 SM: Oh my gosh! JC: [Inaudible]. SM: They fired the supervisor after that? JC: Yeah. SM: Ok. Did they fire him because he wouldn’t let y’all come down? Or because y’all did come down? [Laughing]. JC: Well, things like that he just didn’t have any sympathy for his men…no way in the world. SM: I see! Yes, I see. Well, really I don’t know that working on electricity like that…that would scare me. EC: But you would have to understand that when they were driving to these places out of town, the roads were by and large straight and well paved now. But they had those old trucks and the roads were very crooked. It was the way they were built. SM: Oh. JC: In Robbinsville, we had to be awfully careful over there. At night the cattle would come and lay in the road where it was warm. SM: Oh, ok. JC: So, we would have to be awfully careful driving. SM: Driving back… JC: Someone cattle would be in the road. SM: Oh, my gosh! …run into a cow! [Laughter] JC: Well, that’s how early it was. SM: You went to work early. That’s amazing that you worked out in those storms and all that! SM: Do you remember any one particular storm, that was just the worst that there could be? JC: I guess that flood over there was the worst that… I worked 36 hours over there [inaudible]. I had to climb a 45-foot pole, behind that they had a store [inaudible], up the river. There was a pole down in the hole behind that store. And I thought I would never get to the top of it, it was so tall! 36 hours there in the mud and water and stuff. SM: Goodness gracious! JC: [My main line man] [inaudible]. SM: To work on the electricity pole? Oh, ok. EC: They have bucket trucks now, that the men get in the buckets and go up… JC: I never had a bucket truck! Unknown: But they had never heard of it then. They climbed every pole. SM: Did y’all have something to help you? I know that they have one of those spikes things on the… James Cunningham 16 JC: That’s all we had. SM: And a belt. Y’all had a safety belt? JC: Oh, yes! SM: Ok good! [Laughing]. EC: He come in one time and he had broken his arm and he fell. JC: No, I didn’t fall…right there at the hospital. We had the pole that had steel arms out there. SM: Yes, sir. JC: And the [inaudible] broke down and [shot out]. Well they decided to change it and put wood in it. And the [insulator] they put on the post up there, and the [threads] was an old spring. And that spring would give and rust over there. And I couldn’t break one of them loose and I got up there on the pole and popped one. And it broke the [hook] off my elbow. SM: Oh my goodness!! JC: I told the man with me, I said I broke my arm. I heard it pop. They said it’s an awfully good place, since there’s a hospital! [Laughter] SM: Oh golly!! [Laughter] JC: I worked on it the rest of the day but that arm was straight and I couldn’t bend it. SM: Oh, my! JC: The next morning, [inaudible]. SM: Well, you got to come home then for a while? JC: Yes. About a week. SM: Did they pay you for that? JC: No. [Yeah]. SM: They let you stay out a whole week huh? JC: Yeah. EC: [Laughing] With a broken arm! SM: They did give you light duty when you went back, didn’t they? [Laughter] SM: Alright, as long as they didn’t make you climb the telephone pole again. I keep calling it a telephone pole. A light pole, I’m sorry! JC: When they fired this man they put this boy and this [woman] in the line crew and I worked with him and [inaudible]. He built all these [inaudible]. Well he had a heart attack and died, young. So they tried to get [inaudible]. So the president of the company called me up and said “I want you to take the big line [inaudible].” I said I only worked two and a half years on it. You got men in there who have ten and James Cunningham 17 fifteen years-experience. I said what are they going to say? He said, “[the men] they want you. So they put me in [inaudible] and I built all the other lines. Especially where they moved the road. SM: When they moved the road? JC: When they moved the road I had to build all new lines again. The last line I built was that big line into Cullowhee. SM: Into Cullowhee. Wow. SM: So what year did you retire? JC: ’77. SM: ’77. You were telling me… do you remember any activities that the company would have for its employees that maybe… I mean like picnics. I’ve heard some companies have picnics or awards ceremonies did… JC: We had a 25-year club. SM: A 25-year club. JC: And that gives a bonus. [About the only bonus we ever got.] So [that second year] [inaudible] as president, [inaudible] a haircut. And I thought, now these people working here don’t know one thing in the world about the [inaudible]. And I went back and got the whole history of it and told them [inaudible]. [Inaudible] was there and I will never forget that, [inaudible] Nantahala Power and Light Company, and I gave her a kiss on her forehead and it tickled her to death. SM: Aww! Well did they have a… EC: [Inaudible]. SM: She was still living. Did they have a… it was like a dinner they were having for the 25-year club? JC: Oh yeah! Big dinner! EC: [Inaudible]. SM: Dillard House? EC: Jarrett House. SM: Jarrett House, oh, ok. Was the company… I know the company was involved in things like [for H]. How did that as an employee of the company… were you also involved in it… you know what I’m saying… as part of the company? Did y’all… JC: Well we were part of the company but we weren’t [inaudible]. SM: Oh, ok. EC: But I was because [inaudible]. SM: Oh, ok. EC: And our daughters were in… JC: A lot of times [for H] had a meeting over there in [Waynesville] and they had some outside lights and didn’t know how to turn them on. So this company had me go over there and rewire all the stuff and fix it to where you could turn the lights on. James Cunningham 18 SM: For the [for H]? JC: Yeah. SM: Once the company started selling appliances and things, did they do a big business in appliances? JC: [Inaudible] did but they quit. SM: Oh, ok. Why did they… do you know why they stopped? JC: No, I don’t. SM: Oh, ok. JC: But that’s when they took me out of the service work. They said these fellers selling all this stuff… EC: Think it was [several years after the war], wasn’t it? JC: Oh, yes! Several years after the war. SM: Oh, ok. So stores came into that specialized in… just that type of appliances and things? JC: They said, “we have other things for you to do.” SM: Yeah, you better! [Laughing] SM: Well, let me ask you, as part of the community, you said you grew up in this area and that your parents and grandparents were all from this area. When you were younger did you have… as a child was there electricity in your home? JC: No. SM: There wasn’t? When was there… when did your family get electricity? JC: I was in my twenties, I guess. That’s when [inaudible], that pole right here… Unknown: When they got the drop cords in this house. SM: Drop cords is the first thing? JC: When I was reading meters… SM: Yes, sir. JC: I kept a little screwdriver in my pocket, a pair of pliers in my pocket. These old country people out here would be sitting there waiting for you to come. [Inaudible] and pull on that cord. You would pull that cord out and [he] didn’t know how to fix it. But it would take me about five minutes. SM: Ok. JC: “We’ve got a light in here we want you to look at.” So I would run in there and fix it for them. I made more friends than anybody! SM: They were probably really glad to see you! JC: Oh, they were! I already said you get [known] as the meter reader. [Laughter] JC: Now, buddy they [tied] their dogs. SM: Oh, my goodness! So, they tied their dogs… James Cunningham 19 [Laughter] JC: I read meters on a motorcycle. SM: On a motorcycle! Oh, my, golly! So, you could get around up where everything was and all? JC: I turned it over one day… I had a side car that I kept my tools in. I was on a steep hill and people were sitting on the porch and I backed up and turned it a little too quick. And it ended up on its side and the people sitting over there came over and was like, “Are you hurt? Are you hurt?” I said no but would have [if had seen the under-side of that thing]. SM: Aww. [Laughter] JC: And all of us died laughing when we went back to the house. EC: And he still has a good sense of humor. His mom… I had a [inaudible]. And she ironed right here [on the ironing board]. She had a… and you go out that door and into the dining room and she had a refrigerator there. And on the back porch, she had that old fashioned washing machine with the roller. And that was all the major appliances she had, and not an outlet in this house in 1939, when we were married and this was one of the first in [inaudible] county. That pretty well tells you what [inaudible] was like, isn’t that right [Jim]? SM: Well, that was one of my questions, I was going to ask you. What was the first thing that you remember coming into the house electric? So it was the light coming down from… JC: Just one little light. SM: And if you pulled too hard it disconnected. [Laughing] JC: Just hanging down. EC: And that light bulb up there, inside the globe it was an open shade over anything, it was just the light bulb. And that’s all it was. SM: [Laughing] Well, after electricity… EC: It was a status symbol. SM: Well I was wondering, since it was evidently spreading out across the area. Not everybody… EC: Well they had radio too. Here in the morning, we’d listen to the news. SM: Oh, ok. So, you were one of the first? Were there… and not jealousy… maybe jealousies within the neighborhood of the people that had electricity and ones that didn’t. JC: There was only seven from here to town that got power. EC: And it’s along this road, you see. This was the main highway. JC: And two of them, helped us. We had to [pay] 50 cents apiece for the poles. EC: They had to sit there on poles. JC: And there was two of the seven that helped us buy the poles. EC: For telephone and also for radio. James Cunningham 20 SM: So to get it out here, y’all had to get your own poles. So, y’all kind of got together and bought the poles. And you said you had to set your own poles too? JC: No, no. The power company… We just delivered them to the place. SM: To place where it was. Ok. SM: Well, in general, do you feel like rural electrification in the area was a positive influence? Or a negative influence on your community? JC: It was a great thing! It sure was. [Inaudible] the only trouble we had, was that up on [inaudible] Creek, up in that country there. We had to build a line there [inaudible]. [Inaudible]. SM: So y’all kind of collided… JC: And I ask that man [inaudible]. I asked him if he remembered what the date was when Cullowhee wanted to sell out but I [inaudible]. [Inaudible]. Said he had never heard of that. SM: Of what was there and what power lines and all that? JC: I didn’t know what had happened. I thought maybe he might know what happened. Because they wouldn’t tell me anymore. SM: Yeah, they just sent you over there to take the inventory. SM: Well, in the community in general, did you ever hear anybody complaining that they were having to give up land for the light company to come through? Or they were being slighted by the… As negative… JC: No. [Inaudible]. Man on [Caney Fork] up there [inaudible]. But he was older than I was, he was there when I was a kid. And he was buying property up there and [inaudible]. [Inaudible]. [Laughter]. SM: Oh! My goodness! SM: Well, I’m gonna… right before we close I want to tell you that you have just been… this has been some really good information. But how do you feel about the Nantahala Power and Light Company yourself? I mean how do you feel about the company in general? JC: I worked hard to build it, to what it was. We didn’t have many [enemies]… we had friends. People appreciated it. [Inaudible]. [Laughter] SM: That’s fair, that’s fair! And the last thing I wanted to ask you before we close, is how do you feel about the project that we are doing? The project about preserving the history… JC: I just wish you had more of it. Because there are so many pictures of all the work that went on their [inaudible]. [Inaudible]. SM: Oh, my goodness! JC: [Inaudible]. SM: Now, I know there is a good deal of pictures in this collection that they have now at the library, James Cunningham 21 because I mean there’s a big box of pictures. Now whether it’s all of pictures, I don’t… JC: They said they didn’t have all of them. SM: That they didn’t have all of them. My goodness, there must have been a bunch of those pictures. JC: Oh, it was the prettiest thing you’ve ever seen! [Inaudible]. SM: Is that who took most of the pictures? So Mr. [inaudible] hired him? JC: Chris. EC: He was our town [inaudible]. SM: Chris Bueller? Chris Bueller, did you say his name was? JC: Chris [inaudible]. SM: Chris [inaudible]. I’m sorry. I misunderstood. SM: Well before I close, is there anything that you think I may be overlooked? Or anything that you would like to add, that maybe I didn’t ask about. Or that I need to know, that would be important. JC: Well, now these new plants and stuff and how much they put out, I can’t tell you that. ‘Cause all I knew to do was if it went [inaudible]. That’s as far as I can go. And that’s the only thing I didn’t do at the power company… was the operator. Which I couldn’t have stood that. SM: Why? Was that a bad job? JC: Well, sitting there listening to generators hum… SM: Oh, the noise of the generators. JC: That would have drove me crazy! SM: But you did most everything else? JC: Everything. There wasn’t nothing that the power company had, that I didn’t do. [Laughing]. [Inaudible] would send stuff down here to test on. Well I got to do some of that. SM: Oh, ok. What kind of tests. JC: Well, strength of the wires. SM: Oh, ok. JC: So I did everything. SM: My goodness! This is… You really contributed a great deal to the turning on of the community. Didn’t you? JC: Yes! SM: The lighting of the community! Yes, sir. EC: We used to have a newsletter and the name of it was “The Enlightenment.” SM: The Enlightenment. Is that thought the Nantahala? JC: An old man that lived way back in the country [inaudible]. And in several years, I come by and said you been fishing yet? He said, “no, I don’t have anything to fish with.” And the next time I went around, I had some hooks, sinkers, and lines and I gave it to him. James Cunningham 22 SM: Aww! JC: [Inaudible]. And that’s the way I made friends. EC: Yeah, that’s true. JC: Especially the old people. I learned a lot of history. EC: I thought it was interesting when they sent you up to the electric [inaudible]. [Inaudible]. JC: Yeah, it was a mistake, I guess. He [inaudible] and ran me off. SM: Oh, he ran you off. I bet ya. JC: They called me in and said, “go up there and [fix this].” And I said wait a minute. What’s this all about? I said you tell me what’s [inaudible]. So he did. He said “I explained to this feller that he could live in this place, until he started his business. And when he started his business he would have to go to a commercial rate.” He said, “he’s got a cafe there now.” And I said well [inaudible]. [Laughter] JC: And two women [inaudible] and I said I [inaudible] need to see the manager. He [sold that truck] and I reckon he went over and got him a cigar [inaudible]. Now, he says “what can I do for you?” I said, well we have a little misunderstanding here. I said, I have come to straighten it out. He said, “there ain’t nothing to straight out.” I said well [inaudible;]. He said, “they didn’t tell me no [inaudible]. I said, that man down there in the office, me and him went to work together after we got out of high school. And I said, I have never caught him in a lie yet. [Laughter] JC: Well and he talked on and said, “well I ain’t going to do so and so.” I said [audio cut out]. SM: This an interview on 3/26/2003, with Mr. Cunningham. You were telling me about how Alcoa was [inaudible]. Could you repeat that for me? EC: Well, Nantahala Power and Light was the sub-city area of Alcoa. And Alcoa [inaudible] in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. And it was a big company. Everybody knows about Alcoa. And of course, we just thought of it as Nantahala Power and Light, but then began to learn… and that Alcoa had to get… they wanted the low cost hydro-electric power to [inaudible]. And they had to get permission from North Carolina [inaudible] commission and the only way they could get permission was to give electric power to of the Fontana [inaudible]. SM: Oh, ok. EC: So, when… Alcoa had tried before to sell the company and they couldn’t do it because they [inaudible]. They were a utility company. And they had to be a utility company before they could harness this low cost hydro-electric power with dams. And get the power and stuff. So when they [inaudible] the first time the [inaudible] said no they couldn’t. And then later on they tried to sell it again to a [inaudible], and they tried to sell it there. And so there was some controversy because the people said,” no, you have to do this” So the people amazed them, that they had gone to school and studied and learned. I think we were still probably under the umbrella of [inaudible] and Beverly Hillbillies and all the rest. And they thought it would not be difficult and then they found that [inaudible]… people of the mountains and they had to do us right. And they did. James Cunningham 23 SM: So that was one of the ways they… the things they had to do before they could sell the company to Duke… is to provide electricity to this five county area. EC: That’s right! SM: Ok. JC: See the hourly people were from Nantahala, SM: The hourly people. JC: I was under management. And I had to get my retirement from [inaudible]. SM: Oh, ok! EC: See we could have lost his pension. SM: Oh. EC: They said, “oh, he wouldn’t lose it. They had passed a law, and if the company went bankrupt or anything that the government had to pay.” And he said, “No, I told you at the beginning that there would be pension plans and good benefits when he started working there.” SM: Yes, ma’am. EC: And he worked there for 38 years and now it appeared as though they might lose their pension. And he said, “No. I want my benefits… I my health benefits and my insurance and all the rest.” So, that was what… JC: And I was [inaudible]. EC: Yes, we took the lead. JC: We went to Raleigh and saw the utilities commission. SM: The utilities commission? Ok. JC: And that was the [finest] people, you ever seen. Two old country people going down there and [inaudible]. [Laughter] SM: Very good, very good! That was great. So they helped you maintain your… JC: Oh, yeah! EC: Well they had public hearings. And we went to the public hearings. JC: I had to testify. SM: Before the hearing? EC: To testify. JC: What all I had to go through to get my pension and stuff. EC: He was president of the retirement club. He helped organize the Nantahala Power and Light retirement club. [Inaudible] and that was after 38 years. SM: Oh, ok. JC: I was president of the retirement club. James Cunningham 24 EC: So he was in a leadership role and had [inaudible]. SM: Well when they sold the company to Duke, was it that Duke did not want to pick up the people that were beginning…? EC: No it was before that. They were trying to sell it to a [inaudible]. And that’s when [inaudible]… JC: And Duke told us to keep it up. EC: And the man that was the president of the power company at that time had [inaudible]. And it was just local people but we got to [inaudible], and contacted the Department of Labor [inaudible]. SM: To keep the retirements… EC: [Without that] we would have lost the pension. SM: The pension. EC: If it had gone to the [inaudible]. SM: If it had gone to the [inaudible]. Oh, ok, this is where I’m… EC: Not Duke! SM: Not Duke. Oh, ok. This is where I got confused. JC: We supported Duke. SM: You supported Duke, ok. So… JC: We had used up all the power we had here. These dams and stuff weren’t producing enough power for us. We were having to buy it from TVA. SM: Oh. JC: So Duke promised that they would [inaudible] us power. That’s the reason we supported Duke. EC: Because we had to have electric power. Things do change! And you have to change in your thinking. SM: So, the president that was president of the Nantahala at that time wanted to go to the [inaudible]. JC: He was hired to come here and [do it]. SM: Oh, he was hired to come in? JC: Yeah, I worked about two to three months under him. [Inaudible]. So we couldn’t… SM: Couldn’t work together. EC: Well he worked for every single president the Nantahala Power and Light had. JC: [Inaudible]. EC: [Inaudible]. JC: He had a [inaudible] up in Cashiers. See he was in there with the [inaudible], that invented the Coca-Cola. SM: Oh, ok. JC: [Inaudible]. His wife was kin to [inaudible]. She was in on that, somehow or another. But I never did James Cunningham 25 question him. If he wanted to tell me something why that was alright. And he just took up with me and he gave me a key to that house up there. He said if you go up there of a night and are tired, [why not go to bed]. [I was the only man at the power company to have a key] to his house. I had a key to his house here in Franklin too. SM: Both of them? JC: He called me up [from] Washington and said, “I’m coming in, why don’t you my furnace started. [Laughter] JC: That wasn’t no problem. [Laughter]. SM: Warm it up in there so he could come. And that was Mr. Ford? JC: That was Mr. Ford. SM: He must have been a pretty good guy to work for. EC: Well when our [inaudible] was born she came out to our house and brought a little romper suit, and you know… You don’t think of the president of the company and the wife… but we were such a small community and everything. We knew everybody and I don’t think I have said this previously, but I was a beautician and I did lots of the [inaudible] hair. SM: Oh, ok. So everybody was kinda… it was more of a community oriented company at first. JC: [Inaudible]. It was nice. SM: That’s great. JC: I enjoyed every day. SM: Well I’m glad they didn’t get your retirement after being called on the telephone all hours of the day, night, and Sunday, and having to be an answering machine for the company. [Laughing]. We still got Medicare [inaudible] health insurance. EC: He has really good insurance policy that the company got in addition to Medicare, which takes care of all this, he has to have now. And we even [inaudible]. And the congressman sent us some papers from the Department of Labor. We had everything we needed. [Inaudible]. We’re just [inaudible] people… we’re outgoing and we got in there and [inaudible]. Now all the people didn’t go with us. [Inaudible] and that showed that we had lived right and we had the respect for the people around us. I tried to help everybody. I didn’t want to [inaudible]. A few times the president of the company had to call [inaudible]. [Inaudible]. It was like one of the presidents [inaudible]. “How ‘bout you go over there and fix it.” He said, “No hurry, as long as you get it done today.” [Laughter] JC: They was good to me! SM: Did any of your children or anything work for the power company? JC: [Inaudible]. EC: 51 years old. He went to Charlotte to the University of North Carolina [inaudible]. And he went to James Cunningham 26 school two years and he called and said, “dad there’s electrical engineers down here graduating and then they can’t get a job.” I’ve forgotten what the situation was then, but it was just one of those [inaudible] times. And he said, “can you get me a job at the power company? I want to come home.” So he got him a job at the power company and he worked [inaudible]. He’s the contact person here now from Charlotte for Duke. SM: Oh, that’s wonderful! Are the rest of your children [inaudible]? EC: Yeah, we have two daughters. And one daughter [inaudible] on this edge here, you know? [Inaudible]. But when other people were saving money, Jim said I’m gonna buy land with my daddy. My daddy raised seven kids and educated them… and a granddaughter. And he said he didn’t have a pension and he needed the money. And he [inaudible] and he paid it every month [inaudible]. And his parents lived to be… his mom was 90 and he was 92, was he? SM: Yeah. EC: When they died, they were here but we were living over there and [inaudible]. [Inaudible]. But we bought our land all except for the house. JC: He give us an acre… gave all the youngins an acre. SM: That’s where you were living while they were living here? JC: I knew we were gonna have to take care of them, she come across the field carrying her mill. So I built that apartment myself. I never made a block or cut a rafter or nothing. But I built it. EC: He had never done carpenter work in his life. I said you can [inaudible]. And he said there’s two things you got to do, and he said I know how to do that. I said what’s that? And he said, you got to start and then I can start and you keep going. [Laughter] SM: Oh, that is wonderful! JC: So we moved over there then. SM: Well, I just have enjoyed this immensely. I don’t want to… EC: We have enjoyed having you. SM: I don’t want to take up anymore of your time. EC: I didn’t mean to interrupt. SM: Oh no, no! EC: It’s my life too. I couldn’t help it. SM: Let me get your name before I… EC: Esther Cunningham, just like his. SM: Ok, well I’m gonna shut off the… JC: I was wanting to tell you one thing about it, if… about the power houses… how much electricity they put out and everything. I can’t tell you but I can tell you who can. He lives over there next to Cullowhee. [Inaudible]. James Cunningham 27 SM: Walthrop? JC: [Inaudible]. EC: Yeah, he grew up right out here. JC: Right up here and he went to work after I did. And they put him in the power house out there. SM: Ok. JC: So he helped start it. He can tell you all about that. SM: How much power and all was put out? JC: Yeah. If y’all want to know about that. SM: Oh, yes sir! Well, I’m gonna shut the tape off now, after I tell you both thank you very much for the interview!

James P. (Porter) Cunningham is interviewed by Susan Moody on March 26, 2003. James Cunningham (1915-2003) was born in Franklin, North Carolina. Cunningham discusses the process of the rural electrification. He also gives personal accounts on what it was like working for the Nantahala Power and Light Company. Cunningham’s wife, Esther (1918-2011), tells what her life was like being married to someone who worked for the Nantahala Power and Light Company. James Cunningham talks about a few of the processes that were needed in order to get electricity into the western North Carolina region.

• Creator
  • Cunningham, James P., 1915-2003
• Contributor
  • Moody, Susan
• Format
  • Sound recordings
  • Transcripts
  • Interviews
• Type
  • Sound
  • Text
• Date
  • Date interview: 2003-03-26
  • Date: 1930s; 1940s; 1950s; 1960s; 1970s;
  • Date digitized: 2019-02-14
• Extent
  • Duration: 1:22:21 (sound recording)
  • Duration: 27 pages (transcript)
• Subject - Topic
  • Autobiography
  • Cunningham, James P., 1915-2003 -- Interviews
  • Electric industry workers
  • Electric lines -- Poles and towers
  • Electric utilities
  • Electricians
  • Industries
  • Pensions
  • Rural development -- North Carolina, Western
  • Rural electrification -- North Carolina, Western
• Location
  • Macon County (N.C.)
• Source institution
  • Western Carolina University
• Source Collection
  • Western North Carolina Oral History Project Collection
• Identifier
  • HL_MSS01-04_Moody_Cunningham_2003-03-26
• Repository
  • Western Carolina University Hunter Library