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Interview with Emma Mosley

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  • Native Plants Project Mountain Heritage Center Interviewee: Emma Mosley Also present: Ella Mae Rogers, Stanley, Granddaughter Interviewer: Emily Lower Location: Jackson County Date: October 6, 1998 Duration: 1:29:15 Emily Lower: Today is October 6th, 1998. I am in the home of Ella Mae Rogers but I am talking with her mother Emma Mosley here in Cullowhee. Tell me where you were born. Emma Mosley: I was born Galbraith Creek, that's in Swain County, in 1910. EL: How to you spell Galbraith? EM: Yes EL: Did you grow up there, is that where you lived? EM: Well, I was about six years old when we moved from Galbraith Creek to Bryson City and we lived there- we moved on a place called Rocky Face, way back on the mountain and then after several years we moved to Bryson City to a place called Black Hill and I still live there. EL: How long have you been there then? EM: I can't remember exactly, but I think it was about 1920 when we moved back here. EL: Have you been in the same house? EM: No. I don't remember how long, I live with my daddy of course until I was grown up and married and we built a house out from my daddy’s and I lived there about I guess more than 20 years in that house. But now I live in a trailer, been living there about four years in the trailer, the same place. So that's my home now. EL: So, I don't know how we want to start, do you want to tell me about some of the herbs that you brought with you? EM: This is a yellowroot and this is some that I fixed to show you how it would look when it was fixed. You just break it up and put it in cold water and then when it turns yellow, like that, then if you don't have an appetite, it will build your appetite so you can eat. Also, if you know a lot off times people get a sore in the mouth; well you just rinse your mouth out with that liquid and that good for it, will cure it. EL: How much do you need to drink if you have a low appetite? EM: Well you just take a sip of it, just drink it, and then just take a sip of it along whenever you want it. That's it and this is it in a liquid. EL: Yeah, I've heard a lot of folks mentioning this, but this is the first time that I 've seen it. EM: You gather that in the spring, cause in the winter and fall it's not up where you can see it and it grows on a riverbank. EL: Is there any other part of the plant that you use or is it just the root? EM: Stem and all. You just pull it up, you use the root, you use the, see this is little stems mostly that's in there. And this is the mullein. EL: Okay. EM: That's used for well, I don't know if you know what Bright's disease is or not. EL: Haven't heard it by that term. EM: Well now that is some kind of a kidney trouble and I know about that cause I took it. And swelling. You take that, wash the leaves, I take the clean leaves and make a tea and sweeten it with sugar and drink the tea and the dirty leaves and all, you wash that of course and boil it if there's swollen and let them take a bath in it. Just leave all the good in it, everything in it and you don't pour that out, you just keep it and rewarm it and give them a bath again in it for the swelling and all for making the tea. EL: That's mullein - m u I I e n? EM: uhuh. EL: For swelling. EM: For swelling and the kidney. This is the fever weed. EL: Okay. I've heard of this too. EM: And this of course for flu and cold. And it is good. Ella Mae Rogers: And that's fever weed? EM: Yes. EL: So tell me how you prepare the fever weed. EM: Well, of course you gather it. Well I gathered that this morning and of course you know you wash it and clean it and I let it dry, just dry out till it crumbles or whatever and you just put that in water and boil it and it doesn't have no taste. And you strain that off and if you have a cold or flu and if you're not going outside, you drink a warm cup of it. Put the rest in the refrigerator and then as you want water, you drink whatever amount you want of it. But if you are going to go out, don't drink it warm, the first time, don't drink it warm. And then you can boil that the third time the same stuff and it will still be good. What you have boiled, after you have strained it off you can put that up and if you need to make some more, just put it in and boil it again. Up to the third time. EL: But beyond the third time, it's getting too weak or its not? EM: Yes, it's too weak then. EL: So, how did you learn about these plants? EM: Well, my grandmother. She used to take me out and show me these herbs. I learned them pretty good, of course, now I've forgotten alot of them, because I didn't get them. Well, I do gather these. Well, I just got away from it, so I've forgotten alot of them. EL: Did your grandparents live here. Did they grow up in North Carolina or had they been, they moved up the mountains from a different area? EM: Well really I don't know about them, much about where they grew up. But they did live here in North Carolina all of my life. EL: What about your Mom? You said you learned a lot of this from your grandmother, did your own mother also know alot, or had she learned things from your grandmother? EM: Yeah, she did. She learned alot of things from her mother and her father. EL: So, with your grandma, something that I find in talking with different people is that sometimes when they have knowledge about herbs and plants, it's just their family that they are teaching or talking to and some people talk to alot of people in their community around them. Do you know at all with your grandma, if other people were coming by and asking her for a remedy for something or do you remember her just helping out your family? EM: Yes, they would come by and ask her about things and she would go out somewhere and gather whatever it was, she'd gather something for them and give it to them and tell them how to fix it and they would go home and do it. EL: That's great. So it sounds like a number of people in the community knew that she was somebody that they could go to. EM: Yes. EL: That's great. EM: Back in those days people hardly ever went to a doctor, they would just used herbs. And this fever weed, there was a doctor in Swain County hospital. He had the flu and he told my sister-in-law that, he told her that he had done everything that he knew and he couldn't get rid of it. So she told him that I had some kind of something that could make tea out of and it would take care of that flu. So he asked me if he would drink it he told her yes. So she came to my house and I made up a quart of that fever weed tea and sent it to him. He drank it and the next morning he was better. And he told her that he was going to send it off somewhere and see what was in it that was so good. So it wasn't but a couple of days that he was up and going. And he was a doctor. So I felt real good that I had something that would help somebody. EL: That's a great story. Did he ever do that, did he ever ------plant or anything EM: I don't, really I don't know because the doctor's not there anymore. He left. I don't know who the doctor was. EL: I've heard different people say different things, but I wonder from your point of view, why you think that people didn't go to the doctors in years’ past like they do today? EM: Well they would just, well the people that knew the herbs, they would just try things and if it worked they didn't need to go to the doctor. The Cherokee people they know lots and lots of herbs, so my grandmother was half Cherokee, so that's where she got to know so many herbs. EL: Have you ever had a book or anything that you have referred to to learn about herbs or is it mostly been, what you've used is mostly been what you've learned from your…? EM: No, I've never had a book or anything, it was just handed down to me from my grandmother and my mother. EL: The other thing I wondered, it sounds like mostly what you've gotten has been what you have collected yourself, is that right? Have you ever gone to a store, or people I know in the past have ordered things from catalogs and, but you haven't done anything…? EM: No, I'm a person that, I just don't order things and take them. What I don't know, I don't take. EL: That makes sense. Let me go back and ask about the mullein. Obviously you just collected that and do you know with mullein, is there a certain time period, a certain season of the year that you need to gather the leaves. EM: No, because now that's growing fresh on my bank there. There was a lot up there, but I cut it down. Just too much of it up there. I happened to leave that bunch and gathered it this morning, just so we could show it to you. EL: That's great. I'm glad you did. Let me just ask about some other things. Well I should ask, like the ones you brought today, these are herbs that you are still using when you feel the need or when somebody else in your family or something. EM: Lots of people. This, the fever weed. There's several people that comes to me for it, so I gather it and dry it, so that I can if they take a cold or flu, then either I make them some tea or give them some to make them some tea. EL: What about with your own family, your own children or grandchildren Do they, I mean have they learned things from you or would they come to you still for teas and? EM: Yes, some of them. Now, I've got a nephew, well a couple of them that comes to me for the fever weed tea and they don't never go to the doctor. Well two of the boys, they won't go to the doctor for a cold or flu. They come to me. So I always try to have some for them. EL: I have a list of some other plants and things. Have you ever used catnip? EM: Yes. That's awful good when women has cramps. I make them a cup of that and drink it and it will ease them. And also it's good for babies for the stomachache or if the baby don't sleep good. Give it a little catnip tea and it will ease a little pain in it and it will rest them. EL: That's nice. My mom probably wishes she knew that one. What about other mints, have you ever used any other kind of peppermint or spearmint or anything like that? EM: Uh, well I haven't used it but this pastor that we used to have, he was from [inaudible]. I have some spearmint growing on the bank there. So if he got a sick stomach, he'd come by and he would get him some of that, just chew the leaf and it would settle his stomach. EL: What about the bright yellowroot? I've heard of blood root but I don't know too much about it. Is that anything you are familiar with? EM: No. I've heard of it, but my son he was going, we were going to Cherokee and some of the Cherokees was going to get some of it, but I don't remember what it was for. But Cherokee people, they know most all of those things and know what it’s for. I don't know anything about that. EL: What about angelico or angelica? Is that anything you are familiar with? EM: No, I've heard of it. But I don't know anything about that. Now the Cherokee people know about that too. EL: I'm heading up that way to talk with somebody on Thursday, so it will be interesting to see what. EM: So you can just find lots of stuff from the Cherokees. EL: Is there anything else that you would use for fever besides this plant? Any other herbs that you recall? EM: No, not really. EL: What about if somebody had a cold, like a sore throat or something like that. Is that anything that you…? EM: No, I really can't remember anything. EL: That's fine, if nothing comes to mind. This is not a test as much as to see if something jogs something. Couple of other women I've talked to have talked to me about the croup. Doing something for the croup. I can't even remember what the croup is. I am thinking it is something with the throat. Is that anything, is that something that a baby gets…? ER: Yeah I've heard of it. Stanley: Yes, it's the croup. You're really coughing, you got the croup. All night long. Well you used to give us something for the croup. EM: Don't remember. St: I've had the croup my own self ER: I've put onions with sugar in it and let it sit on it. Put sugar on onions and let it sit on it. Make poultice out of it St: I just put onion on the stove with salt and let it get real hot and all the steam come out of it and the onion will cut the cold, cut the croup. ER: I used to fry onions and give it to them EM: But I think whooping cough. I know everybody's familiar with that, whooping cough. This is going to sound funny, but you get dry chestnut leaves and you boil those chestnut leaves, then you strain that water off and then you get you some whiskey and pour it in that water and you put brown sugar in it and boil it to a syrup and then take a teaspoon full once a day. Cause if you take too much it will stop the coughing too quick. EL: What do you mean by that, it will stop it too quick? EM: Well, you know, I've heard if you stop a cough too quick that it would kill you. So we all had whooping cough and my daddy he went away on the mountains, found some dry chestnut leaves and came back and made the tea and went somewhere and got some whiskey and after he strained it off, he put the whiskey in it. Then he got a box of brown sugar and he poured it in that and he boiled it until it made a syrup. Then he gave us a teaspoon full in the morning and Ella Mae she had it, I had it, my son had it and my brothers had it. They would just whoop when they cough and all like that and you know it stopped it. Just gradually cut the cough down and in a few days we were alright. EL: So it was chestnut leaves from the tree? EM: Uh huh, chestnut leaves from the tree. EL: That's interesting. I have not heard that before. EM: Well that's good. All of these things that I brought and that, I know of that because I used it. So they are all good EL: I've heard from a lot of folks that I've talked to with the use of whiskey in some of the remedies or whatever you want to call them. That seems pretty common. EM: There is a herb called stargrass but I wouldn't know what it was, but this old lady gathered it when I had this bad kidney trouble. And so she told my daddy for me to drink that tea and give me a bath in it and drink a little bit of the stargrass tea with it. That's the first time and the last time that I've ever seen any stargrass. EL: And you are saying star, like star in the sky? EM: Yes. EL: And this was when you were little? EM: And this was when I was a kid. EL: Huh. EM: There's a lot of people, especially those Cherokees would know it. EL: Any idea who that woman was? EM: Well she's dead. EL: Yeah, do you have any idea what her name was or anything like that? EM: Marg Weeks. EL: And what was her first name? EM: Marg. EL: And that was in the Bryson City area. I'm not sure if this would mean anything and I think a woman who was from around here and I don't have her last name but her first name was Florence Fisher. ER: Florence Fisher. I remember her, she was Florence Fisher EL: You do remember her. Okay Mind if I ask her about Florence for a minute. EL: Yeah, maybe what I need to do is ask around and see if there is somebody that might. Do you know Priscilla Proctor who works over at the library, special collections and all? St: I know Priscilla. EL: Anyway, she knows that I am doing this project and she came across this article. This was in the Webster Historical paper and she made a copy of it for me. The reason that I was asking is that because, this is from '74 and she looked like she was a fairly old woman at that time. I was just curious if anybody would know about her. It sounds like she also had different things, different herbs and poultices and things that she gave to people and… ER I don't know what relation she is to Maggie Bell Fisher - Maggie Bell was a Fisher. She’s still living. I'm sure she would be glad to talk to you because she is a relative of… EL: And she lives on Riverview? ER Her name is Maggie Bell Smith, She's a Smith now. EL: O.K. ER: I'm not sure- that might he her aunt, because Clyde Fisher was her uncle. EM: I'm related to a Fisher - they're related in there somehow. EL: It would be nice to know someone related. I know the articles, she sounds like an interesting woman because she, I helped to raise a lot of other people’s kids and this article was written by somebody who actually had been taken care of by her growing up so I didn't know if she had her own kids or not. 0kay good, I'll check on that one. ER: Someday I would like to have an unlisted phone, because some days about to go by there, I’ll go with you. Find out which day she is home and go there. EL: I might take you up on that. I'm going to jump back in. I realize I'm always interested alot in peoples own stories, their own history of growing up and I realize I didn't ask you too much before we started talking about the herbs but, let me jump back and ask if you have many brothers and sisters at all? EM: Yes, I have 3 sisters and I only have I brother living. EL: So did, I'm assuming that they learned about the different kinds of plants that you have also from your mother and grandmother or was it mostly you that was interested? EM: Well, mostly me. I don't think they know anything about herbs. They wasn't as interested as I was. I was always nosey, trying to find out things. EL: So mostly when you go out, was it mostly on your own, the land that you lived on or surrounding land or either as a kid or present day? When you go to look for yellowroot, do you have to go very far? EM: Yes. I have to go up in Cherokee to find it. Well there was some that grew right there in Bryson City but they have dozed out those places. You know it grows on creek banks or river banks. And of course if we find any now, we have to go up in Cherokee. The yellowroot. EL: What about the other two that you brought, the mullein and the fever EM: Well now that grows on my place where I live. EL: The mullein does and the fever weed. EM: and the fever weed The fever weed is getting harder to find I had me a little garden of it growing on the bank. When they were putting these trailers in, of course, they tore it up so there's none there now, but I found a bunch over on the bank, over on the other side of the trailer, so that's where I got that this morning. But I've got a big bag full that I already gathered and dried hanging up there. EL: How do you dry it. Do you just hang it or just lay it out flat? EM: I just lay it out on a clean cloth or a paper and just let it dry off and then I put it in a white sack and hang it up in the house where air can get through the sack and just let it dry in the house EL: So it's in a cloth sack? EM: Yes, a cloth sack. EL: I hadn't heard that before and you said a white one. Does it matter if its light or dark, the material, does that matter? EM: Well, I don't know - I'm always partial to a white sack. Well I just don't know. I reckon the dye, I'm afraid some dye or something would get on it. I always just use a white sack to dry it in so the air can get through it. EL: Where do you do that, and where do you dry things? Do you have somewhere in the house that you always like to hang things? EM: Well, my back porch is boxed in. So I just, and I've got some shelves in it and I just drive me a nail up in there and hang it on the nail in the sack and let it dry where nothing can get on it. Well it couldn't get on it in the sack but no dust and stuff that might get in on the fever weed. EL: And then once its dry, how do you like to store things? EM: I just leave it in the sack EL: Oh, you just leave it in the sack? EM: And then as I need it, I just open the sack and get some out and use it and tie the sack back up and hang it back up. Granddaughter: Grandma, how long can you keep it? Dried like that. EM: You can keep it on and on. It doesn't matter how long you keep it after its dry. EL: These ones you wrote down, like these are things you remembered that you already talked to your mom about? ER I just wrote them down in case we want. EL: Yeah, I'm going to ask, tell me about queen of the meadow EM: Well, now that's a kidney medicine. You just boil it and make a tea. You get the root of that. It grows tall and a stalk of it has a little stripe in it. But you don't find it this time of year, just in the spring. EL: I'm just going to see if l can find this one. Now, I'll just have to make note of it. I have a book on plants and sometimes they have common names but there are so many different common names, sometimes it’s hard to find it in this way. When you say that something is good for kidneys, what does that mean to you, how do you know when… I never think about my kidneys. EM: Well, a lot of times peoples back hurt down low and that's the kidney. And I know some of the older people when their back would get to hurting, they would make them some tea, down when their back got to hurting down low. They just go out and get them some of that. I know my daddy did and make him some tea and then his back would be alright. EL: I started looking at this when you were beginning to describe the plant to us, so it’s like 3 feet tall maybe, grows about that high? EM: Some of it grows great tall and it has this purple bloom on it. I did have a lot of that growing around my place but that dozer, when they come and tore it out. EL: Do you find that there are plants that you see less of around you, like you said about the yellowroot that you have to go all the way up to Cherokee for. I'm not being very clear What I am thinking is, it sounds like when I talk to other people that a number of years ago they used to see a lot of plants that they don't see today. EM: mhmm EL: Because like you are saying, because of dozing or just way the land has changed or something. The people live here. Is that your experience too? EM: Yes, it is. Just a lot of things that you don't find anymore. Now ginseng, that's something that you don't find around here anymore. EL: Ginseng? EM: Yes ER: Is that the bud that you get when you have a stomachache. Is that an, like a bud. EM: Yes, you get the root and if you have stomach ache, you just bite off a little piece and chew it, and you don't have anymore pain. ER: Somebody used to come over and look for that and say it was good for a stomachache. And Charlie used to get it and he would sell that stuff. EM: ohhhhhhhhh. I've forgotten how many dollars it is a pound. Gr: It's not like the ginseng that I'm thinking about, you know what I am talking about, it's not that is it, it can't be that? EL: Well, I think there's different varieties of ginseng, I'm not an expert. Gr: I take it every day. It's something new that I found out about for energy and stamina. EL: I actually think it’s the same. Gr: You think it’s the same thing? ER: You get it at an herb store. EL: Because I think a lot, I don't want too much of myself on this tape, but it seems like, because I go to natural food stores myself for things and I was reading about a man who also, like yourself, had learned about herbs from his family and now he actually… before he died he started to work with an herb company and selling the plants that he had on his property. That's just my guess. EM: Dawn here at Whittier, of course the mans dead now, he sold his herbs in a liquid. Of course, I never took any of them but my son did. ER: He took it for his cancer. EL: That was ginseng you are talking about or that was something else that he took? EM: Really I don't know what it was. I had a list of those things and what they were for from that store, but I don't know. It’s there at the house somewhere but I would just have to look through everything to find it. ER: He had a lot of herbs in them. Not sure about ginseng, but it had the herbs written on the bottle. Some of the capsule you can buy and you can either take them or you can put them in some water and break it up. Gr: My niece who was up here, she was talking about cayenne pepper. And I didn't know that there was such a thing as a capsule of cayenne pepper. I went to a drugstore to look for it and there it was on the shelf, the herb. EL: Yeah, I think it’s pretty interesting. ER: I find it really interesting. EM: Well now my granddaddy, he would be hemorrhaging and he would just take a little cinnamon stick and he would chew it and swallow it. That would stop the [hemorrhaging]. EL: Do you remember using ginseng for anything else? You had said just chew on it a little bit was for your stomach, I think. EM: No, I never used it for anything else that I know of, just when my stomach would get to hurting, I would just bit off a little piece of it and chew it. EL: Do you know of anyone that sold ginseng or I mean today I've seen three places in Sylva actually that have signs to buy it and I know that ginseng has been something that sometimes people have collected. EM: No, I don't of anyone now I forgot the man’s name but I know he did have a lot of it and he planted a lot of it in the woods at Fryemont Inn in Bryson City and then he had big pots of it that he would grow it in a pot, but I don't even remember his name. St: Grown ginseng don't bring in as much as the regular ginseng. It's about half. Regular ginseng brings about $300 pound now and grown ginseng brings about $150. They claim its now as strong as the kind you find out in the woods. About like locust, you know, the second locust is not as strong as the first locust. So they don't pay as much for grown ginseng as they do for the full strength ginseng. EL: Tell me about locust? St: Oh locust is just a locust tree and it grows up. And then the first is usually yellow and it’s not as bad to rot. You can stick in the ground. These locust posts that have been surrounding our land they've been in use since the land was… well my grandfather said that they was here when they came down here. They're still standing. But the second one, the second one that comes up is not as strong as the first one that comes. Charlie down here, he's in ill health now though, but he used to get ginseng and sell it every year. He can't hunt it no more on account of his leg and back, but he can recognize it. I took some to school for my biology project. I didn't know what it was. Teacher told me what it was. I couldn't figure out where I got it from or anything. EL: And you had just collected it yourself? St: Yeah, we had a leaf collection is what we had and I had picked it, the leaf and I took it to school but I didn't know what kind of leaf that it was and she knew that it was ginseng and I was going to go back and find out where I got the leaf from. I traced places that I had gone, but I couldn't remember where I had picked the leaf from. There's ginseng on this property here but I can't recognize it. Some people can look from a mile away and see it. I'm not able to recognize it. EL: Is that something Emma that you know, I mean you know ginseng by sight. How the plant looks? EM: No, I used to but I haven't seen any in so long, I've forgotten really what it looks like. EL: And I'm told that it's just not growing as plentiful in the mountains as it used to. St: It's been picked a lot. You have to have a permit now to pick it. Used to be you didn't have to have a permit and now you're allowed… they only allow you so much anymore that you can pick EL: I'm just looking down here -what did you write down for rheumatism - it looks like rat EM: Rat’s vein. Now that's in the woods. Now this old lady… I used to go to the woods and gather it but I don't know if I would know it anymore or not. But it just grows no higher than that in the woods. EL: You mean like 4 or 5 inches, is what you're saying? EM: Yes, and I used to get it for her and she said she took it and put it in whiskey and soaked it and then take sips of that along for rheumatism. And I used to go to the woods and gather it for her but I might could find it in the woods, but I'm afraid to go in the woods now. EL: That's pretty neat though. EM: Yeah that was, it grew right above my house up there in the woods. That's where I would go get it for her. EL: And that's another plant that I guess you are gathering in the spring or summer? EM: No I don't gather it anymore. EL: But when you did? EM: They put trailers and things up there and of course the property belongs to another person and a lot of the woods is cut out so I guess we couldn’t' find it there anymore. EL: I guess what I want to know, is that when you did go to get it, what time of the year would you have gone out? EM: Well in the fall and it would have, I think it would have a little berry like thing on it. EL: I'm going to see if this ones in here. I have another, actually it's Suzanne who I'm working for, she has a book that has more of the common names which is a little more useful. Do you have any questions or anything? Gr: What about flax, did you ever hear anything about flax seed or anything Grandma? EM: Yes, but you had to buy that at the store. Gr: You had to buy them at the store, they don't grow… EM: Well if it did, I don't know anything about it. That's a seed, if you get something in your eye and can't get it out, why you just drop one of those flax seeds in the eye and it will, whatever that is in your eye, it will run it out to the corner where you can get it. My daddy used to use a lot of that on us cause us kids was always getting something in their eye. Like grit or anything, a gnat, anything you can't get it, you put that flax seed in it will run it over to the corner of the eye so you can get it out. EL: Well, I've never heard of that before. I know I've seen like in health food stores, they have flax seed oil that people use. A friend of mine was trying to explain to me what it was good for, but I guess it helps kind of counteract some of the fats and other things in our diet that arent’t as good for us. That's a completely different use of the flax seed than what you are talking about. Have you ever used anything for poison ivy or bee stings or anything like that, any kind of plants to help? EM: Yes, what's the name of that plant Charles, I should have brought a piece of that. St: You can take five different leaves from five different trees and make a boil out of it and it will cure poison ivy. Maude Lacky. I use tobacco for beesting and it will pull it right out, pull the poison right straight out. EL: And what did you call that, you said the combination of five leaves? St: She said to get five different leaves and I think it was Tommy had poison ivy really bad. You get 5 different leaves. She named the leaves to get and one of them was a [inaudible] leaf and boil it and make something out of it. She could tell you better because she told Tommy. EL: Who is this? St: Mauldine Lackey, you can call Mauld Lackey. She's married, still lives in Cullowhee. EL: I knew a woman down in Franklin who I think it's jewelweed that she has by her house that she uses for poison ivy or beestings, I'm not sure which, well for both. I guess she takes the leaf, she has the plants growing right by her front door and she has a little kids and she said if they get poison ivy or something stings them, they know where that plant is and they just go and take a leaf and rub it right on. ER: Mother she used to use snuff to put on a bee sting. And I got stung with a bee Saturday. And it did help. Make a little paste, put right on it. EL: You remember that Louise L: I remember as a little girl when we were together and you would put that snuff on it. ER: It really does help, at least with the itching part. St: It never swell or nothing, if you put it right on, right after it happens, if you put it on it will never swell. ER: That is if you don't scratch it, but I'm bad for scratching cause it starts itching. St: I never can find the little stinger. ER: But it did help, I'm a witness it does help. EL: And that's something that you had done? EM: Uhuh. ER: She taught us about it. EL: That's great. What about… Have you ever used anything for warts? I know I mentioned that I had talked with somebody who had done that. Have you ever heard of anything about curing warts? EM: No, I've never used anything. ER: What are those, the little things that come up? EL: When I was a little kid, I had warts on my fingers. They're kind of like a mole in some ways, its raised up. ER: Take a hair from your head and just tie it around it and just take it off. EL: Just take it off. St: I heard of this man that could bye warts. I've heard of several people that could say that. Just take a piece of corn from your hand and never think about it anymore and they would wake up and the warts were just gone. I know of several. My uncle claims that he can stop blood. Verse out of the Bible. He can stop blood. I've never seen him do it and I've never seen the wart gone but I heard people testify that it has happened. ER: What's the egg… you take the white of the egg? EM: Yes, you smear the egg white. I know the facts about that verse in the Bible. It will do it. ER: But mother won't tell us. EM: I'm not supposed to tell it St: According to tradition, a mans supposed to tell a woman and a woman is supposed to tell a man. A woman can't tell a woman. Has to be a man that tells a woman or a woman that tells the next man. EL: And that's how you understand it Emma? What he was just explaining, that's how you understand it to work also. That if you are going to share that knowledge or with someone else, it has to be…? EM: Well the way, the man that told me, the way he told me that I could give it to one person. Didn't say whether it was a man or a woman, but I could give it to one person. I can't understand why that you couldn't tell anybody but that's what he told me. And Ella Mae you know Uncle Jude Gibson, he was the one that told me. ER: Mamma, you've got it folded down here in the Bible. Just told me to read it didn’t say what chapter, what she's got folded down. I don't know which one to read, read all of it. EL: So that's something that you have done a number of times in the past then. You've helped somebody who has had bleeding. EM: Yes I have. And I remember this person was having hemorrhages and this man told me about it. He told them, said wait a minute, let me go home and that blood will stop. He didn't remember the verse and so he went home and it was just a few minutes and that blood had all stopped. EL: Is that something you have used recently or is more in the past that you've? EM: Oh, it’s more in the past, its more in the past, but it works. EL: I didn't ask you, who it was that taught that to you, or how did you, how was that given to you, that ability? EM: About that person? EL: Not that I'm asking you to tell me anything of course, was it a friend or a relative? EM: It was a friend, of course a step grandfather. Jule Gibson Julius Gibson was his name. Of course he's gone now, old man. EL: I talked to a woman down in the Hendersonville area actually and she wasn't talking about stopping blood but she said that her husband had the gift to cure the thrush. Gr: What do you use for that? EL: Well, it was just like your grandmother was saying that I believe he had, it was a verse from the Bible, but it was something that he knew that he… he didn't even tell his wife who was the person I was interviewing. And like, what is your first name? St: My name is Stanley. EL: It was the same, just like you had told me. EM: Thrush? Well now Ella Mae can cure that. ER: Can I? EM: All you have to do if a child has thrush you just roll your breath in that child’s mouth three times. That's all you got to do ER: Just like? [breathes] EM: I can't do it, Joyce can't do it- none of your kids can do it, but you can. (laughter) Gr: So you've had to do that before and it works for you, why does it work for her? EM: I'll tell you why, she's never seen her daddy. I've seen it done. St: You got to know when to throw out the superstition stuff and you got to know when to bring in.. EL: Did it work? ER: If that's the case, if everybody has different ideas and different opinions, everyone would be superstitious. You have to believe in some things to make things come true. EM: I have seen it done. ER: Of course, today when they don't really believe in nothing much. EL: Or the beliefs sure have changed. What we believe to be true is different now Gr: But I listen to what older folks say, they have a lot of knowledge. ER: True they didn't have to go to the doctor as much as we do today, right straight to… EM: Well back in those days, people couldn't afford it. EL: Here is a question. I'll address it to Emma first. Then if you all have thoughts too… go ahead and share. What do you think makes people sick? Why do you think we even get sick? EM: Well, I think alot of this is our mind. Because if you go around thinking you're sick, whatever you think and believe it happens, I think. Now, the only thing that I take, I'm 88 years old, and the only thing that I take is an inhaler for my asthma. I don't take no medicines period. And the next thing, you got to trust in the Lord. You can't go around saying that you trust in the Lord and doing any and everything that you want to do. You've got to really trust in the Iord and believe that he will do it, and he will. I was pushed out of the operating room for dead, the doctor done said I was dead, and that's been over 40 years ago. I'm still living. I had surgery for cancer, I had surgery for cancer twice. I'm a cancer patient and he pushed me out for dead. Told the nurse, she's gone walked out. The nurse [inaudible] and I gave a breath. I didn't know nothing for three days. I woke up I’m still here. But when I went in to that operating room, Jesus was standing there at the door and he didn't go in with me, and I mean in person, but he just turned his head and watched me in that emergency room. And this lady that was with me when I went in the living room, I waved her bye-bye she was just crying and praying and all and I just went in the operating room. And when I saw Jesus standing there, there wasn't no fear. I just went on, just went on in there and watched them stretch me out and give me my shot and everything. So I'm still here and I'm thinking about being here for awhile. EL: So when you came out of the operating room, the doctor thought you were dead? EM: They operated on me, just pushed me off in the room, back… and told the nurse. The nurse she was supposed to be off, she was the one that I had had surgery for the first time and she… but she stayed with me. And when I woke up on the third day, she said well I'm going to take my days off now. I took care of you when you had surgery before and I wanted to stay with you now, this time and so she stayed and took care of me. So I'm still here. EL: I would never have guessed you were 88. Gr: I wanted to say that, now does that look like someone who’s 88 - not in a million years. ER: I guess about two years ago when Dr. Provost was here, you know Dr. Provost? EL: No. ER: Anyway, he examined her and said that she had the body of a 30 year old woman. He gave her a mammogram and also a pap smear. Said he usually don't do it on woman that age, but he said that with her body being as perfect as it was, he went on and did it. At that time she was 84, I guess or 85 She had never had a mammogram before, she didn't know what it was, and telling her how they were going to do it. See, they didn't go to the doctors for all this stuff that we go to today and mama didn't know what was happening to her or anything when she come to the doctors and they sent her to. Last two years she just found out now what mammograms and all that stuff is. She never had it before EL: That's great for you that you feel good. ER: And beautiful Gr: I've been gone awhile, I just got here. I haven't been here in a long time and I feel the same way you do looking at her, she's just beautiful. I can't, I just hope that I would look that good. ER: She's got a sister that's 92. EM: 93. ER: 93 and still driving. Isn’t she still driving her car? Last year she did. EM: Somethings getting wrong with her eyes or her glasses, something now, she don't… ER: I know they missed her one day and [inaudible] couldn't find aunt [inaudible] and I went out to the house to see if she was out there and if she’s not we gunna get grandma and we're going to come back and get grandma. I went out there and she said “That makes me feel good that you're out looking for us.” [inaudible] EL: What else, I guess this is kind of getting in the bigger picture of health, I mean. You've talked about herbs and you've talked about your personal faith which I know is very important, but are there other things in your life that you've done for yourself in terms of keeping your health, like just getting outside or…? EM: Nothing but hard work. Mowing the lawn, I still mow my lawn, I still make my garden and I make mud and concrete and pour it and I cut weeds, get out with a sling and cut these big weeds. Gr: And cook and her nails are done. EM: I don’t let no weeds grow under my feet. I just can’t stand to sit around. I've got to be doing something. The girls get after me sometimes, but I love to work. I've worked all my life since I was 6 years old. I've sawed acid wood, I've peeled tan bark, I drove a team, and I've cut briars, I've hoed corn, I've pulled fodder, I've cut tops. Well I've done a little of everything in life. EL: How many children did you raise? EM: Three. My son’s dead. That's her father, he's dead. Ella Mae, Joyce and Jimmy. Two girls and a boy. And my mother had 10 children and everybody had to work. [inaudible] EM: You have to move around. You have to do some work to exercise off just walking. You've got to do different work to exercise all your limbs. And I've never smoked. The doctor said that that was one thing that I was living so long, that I had never smoked. That's what Provost told me. ER: She still can dance. She get down on that floor and get back up. EM: You've got to exercise all your limbs to stay in… just walking that's not exercising everything. You've got to dig and mow lawns and… I love to dig, to do it. I can't hold out as long as I used to but Joyce gets out and takes the lawnmower away from me and does the mowing herself. ER: And Tommy takes the plug out of it to keep her from using it. EL: So where do you go dancing or do you? ER: She just clowns. EM: I just clown around, I really don't go to dances. ER: With the grandbabies. She was just playing with Zoe. [looking at pictures] She's got more than just these two. I don't have any. That's her great - 5th generation. EL: Oh-- ER: Zoe is two and Zana's 9 months. EM: Those are my great-great. EL: your great great ave 3 children, one is deceased. How many grandchildren do you have? ER: She has 13 grandchildren. EL: And how many great grandchildren? ER: I don't know right off. Gr: Robin and I have some and then Robin's daughter has one, so there is one beyond that, ER: So there great, great and great. EL: You're a grandmother? ER: Yes EL: You're a young grandma too. ER: Yes EL: Our tape is just about filled up. I think it’s nice to hear from everybody. I mean there are a lot of other things I could ask about, but you have already shared quite a bit and I think that it’s really important, actually what we were talking about, I think it’s really important to kind of get a bigger picture, so to speak, so that it’s not just herbs that are part of your view of health and staying healthy but its other things in your life too. EM: Do you live right around here? EL: I've been living over at Western while I have been working there at the Mountain Heritage Center. Not too far. I had not come up this road before. I like to bike and I've gone, I’ve taken some little roads around here. L Are you from here? EM: If I do run across those, now of course that’s from this place where they mix up herbs, but it’s a name of a lot of herbs. If l can remember, I remember putting it up but I would have to go a bunch of papers to find it and if l do why I'll see that you get it. EL: Is there anything else that you think you want to add. We've covered a lot of different things in the hour, is there anything else you would like to share? EM: No not really, I guess. Gr: Are you an herbologist - what is your specialty? EL: Yeah. My background is in American cities and folklore which is really broad, so it’s kind of like going to school to be a historian or anthropologist or something that's really wide open and then as I do different jobs, I get to focus on things. Some people do have one area that becomes sort of their expertise. I've actually learned a lot about herbs doing the project, but my background hasn't been in botany area. Gr: Is this something that is going to be for some type of research. Is it going to be written down published in some type of article that we can see when you're done. EL: This is all part of the Mountain Heritage Center over at Western which is a history and folklore museum and I can't remember what I wrote, I know I sent them a letter, but you don't remember always what you've read. But in 2 years, actually in the year 2000, the next exhibit in the museum will be on plants, on native plants. So what happens, Suzanne McDowell who is the curator, she's the one who puts all these exhibits together, she may come back to some of these tapes that you and other people have shared and take things from what you said to help her to put the exhibit together. So it may be direct or it may be indirect and actually before I go, I have a consent form that's sort of the official form that says you let the Mountain Heritage Center have this tape and everything. But it could be indirect in the sense that if a number of people talk about the use of a certain plant like yellowroot, she may take that and put it up into her exhibit or there may be something that you have said that she wants to quote you. And so I think they will probably contact everyone and say we're going to say something that you've said exactly and put it in the exhibit is that okay. So either of those things could happen. The other thing is that sometimes when I think about working in a museum, they don't have a big archives, in other words they don't have their own big library or collection, but they do have, it is growing and it's also these tapes. And actually what I'm going to do or somebody will do, is take this tape and type the whole thing up, everything that we've said into a transcript and there might be somebody else. In fact I know of 2 or 3 people currently who do have backgrounds in botany or study plants that are doing projects in the area and maybe they might be the kind of person that says Oh I want to come listen to the tapes that you guys have. Gr: It's research for a larger kind of cause, for a larger project. EL: I don't know how you all see it too but I feel like this isn't my home community, but everybody’s experience is really valuable and I feel like whatever you have shared or the other women I've talked to have shared, it's really recording a part of the local history. I mean you are a part of the local history. I mean you were before you talked with me, but this is just recording it. Any other questions.
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  • Emma Mosley is interviewed as part of the "Native Plants Project"--a research project of the Mountain Heritage Center at Western Carolina University. Ms. Mosley is a native and lifelong resident of Swain County. This interview takes place in Cullowhee at her daughter's home. Emma's grandmother, who was part Cherokee, was very knowledgeable in the medicinal properties of herbs and plants. She passed this knowledge to Emma when she was a young girl. Emma has continued her grandmother's legacy and helps those in need in her family and in the community. She gathers the herbs and plants, dries them and stores them for future use. Emma discusses a variety of plants, when and where to gather them as well as their uses to cure and heal. The discussion also includes lore about healing. When asked to what she attributes her longevity, Emma replies healthy living and hard work, but above all, that faith in the Lord has allowed her to enjoy such a long life.