• Format
  • Transcripts
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  • Duration: 24 pages (transcript)
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  • Western Carolina University
• Identifier
  • HL_MSS98-03_Smith_Smith_1986-09-16_transcript

Smith 1 WESTERN NORTH CAROLINA TOMORROW BLACK HISTORY PROJECT Interviewee: Birdell Love Smith (BS) Interviewer: Edward Clark Smith (I) County: Haywood Date: September 16, 1986 Duration: 1:10:58 Edward Clark Smith: How are you today, Mrs. Smith? Birdell Love Smith: I am feeling fine today, thanks. I: Mrs. Smith, has your family always lived in North Carolina? BS: Yes, they have, the whole family mother and all lived in Haywood County. I: Now would you trace your family tree back as far as you can, beginning on your mother's side, if you remember her parents name, their parents name and where they were from, what they did for a living, would you please share that with me? BS: Yes, I will. My grandmother was Mary Cox and she was a slave. I: Do you know where she was a slave? Was it here in Haywood County? BS: No, it was somewhere else. I: So, she was a slave? BS: Yes, she was. I: But if it wasn't Haywood County then she came here after the slaves were free. BS: Must have, yes, she was in Macon, Georgia, she lived there. I: So, you think she was a slave in Macon, Georgia. BS: She must have been. I: Do you know how she got to North Carolina? BS: No, she just moved here from Macon, Georgia. I: Do you know if she came here with a white family or did she already have family here? BS: No, she had a family in Georgia and she and her whole family moved here. I: You mean, her and her husband and children. BS: That's right. Smith 2 I: OK. Was her mother still alive? What did your grandmother do to earn a living or did she work outside the home? BS: She worked on a farm in Haywood County. I: Do you know the name of the owners? What did your grandfather do on your mother's side now? BS: Well, he worked on the farm too. I: Was he also a slave? BS: Well, I don't know exactly if he was or not, I just know she was. She told us about it. I: OK. What was his name? BS: Jack Cox. I: Jack Cox? BS: Right. I: Do you know if your grandmother had another name before she married your grandfather? BS: I don't know. I: OK. Tell me about your grandfather. BS: Grandfather Cox? I: Yes ma’am. BS: I never did see him. I: Did they won their own homeplace? BS: No, they rented. I: Was it like sharecropping, what they did? BS: That's what they did for a living. I: OK. How many children did they have? BS: They had five. I: Were all the children born in Georgia or Waynesville? BS: Georgia. I: So, they sharecropped for a living in Georgia? BS: Uh-huh. I: And then, did your mother ever tell you why they decided to leave Georgia? Smith 3 BS: She never did say, they just moved from Georgia to Haywood County. I: Did she know some people up here or something? BS: She must have. I: Tell me about the house your grandparents lived in. BS: They just lived in a -- you know just a plain farm, you know like a farmhouse, wasn't fine or nothing. I: How many rooms in it? BS: Well they had about six rooms. I: That was here in Haywood County? BS: Uh huh. I: What did your grandfather do here in Haywood County? BS: I never knew my grandfather. I: What was it you told me your grandmother did for a living in Haywood County? BS: She just did plain housework. I: So, did she work for one family or several families? BS: She worked for several families doing laundry. I: Was Monday "washday"? BS: Yes, she did a lot of laundry and then she got old and sick and stayed home and her girls took care of her. I: Who took care of her children while she was working? BS: Well, ah1 the oldest one took over. I: Oh. BS: There's two more left, uncle Noey Cox, he was a preacher and Fadie Cox, I didn't know well. I: So, you say uncle Noey was a minister? BS: Yes, he preached in Sylva for years. I: Did he? BS: Uh huh. I: Ok, alright. Now, we were saying your grandmother took in laundry and did domestic work until she was too old to work? Smith 4 BS: Uh huh. I: Do you remember her? BS: Yes, I know my grandmother. I: Describe her, what kind of person was she? BS: Well, she was heavyset - big heavyset woman. I remember her, she fished a lot. Whenever she got so she couldn't work she'd go fishing. I: Ah. BS: The girls took care of her, you know took care of her until she died. I: So, she enjoyed fishing? Did she have any other gifts, handcrafts of any kind? BS: No, she didn't. She just like to fish and sit around. She was so heavy she didn't do much, she was a large woman. I: Anything else about your grandparents you remember on your mother's side? BS: That's about all. I: Did they have a garden? BS: Yes, they had a garden just to feed the family. I: Now, did they have a horse? BS: No. I: How did they get from one place to another. If they need to go downtown or to another county or something. BS: Well, it was close, if they wanted to go downtown they just had to walk. I: Was there a name of the area where they lived? BS: It’s called Froglevel. I: Froglevel? BS: Well, that's a funny name, but Froglevel. I: So, they could walk to town? BS: Uh huh. I: What about to church? BS: Oh, they went to church, in Froglevel. I: Do you have any idea how far that was? Smith 5 BS: Well, it wasn't over a mile. I: Oh, I see. OK. How did they get milk and butter and all stuff? BS: They had a cow. I: They had a cow but they didn't have a horse and buggy, right? BS: Uh huh. I: How did the plowing get done? BS: They would get somebody to plow. I: Oh. BS: Then they could get somebody to plow and they could work the garden. I: How did they store things that had to be kept cold like milk and butter? BS: Well, back then they just had an ice box. You know, buy a block of ice put in the ice box. Wasn't no refrigerator back then. I: I imagine she had a wood stove, right? BS: She did, had a wood stove. I: You said she did laundry, was that the irons you had to heat on the fireplace or on the stove? BS: You don't remember that, do you? I: No, but I've heard other people talk about it. BS: Yes, it was just a plain iron you heat on the stove and stay up all night sometimes doing laundry, so they could be ready to take them out the next day, so they would stay up all night. I: Oh. So, she had the black pot outside to boil the clothes in? BS: Yes, heat the water. I: Did you ever have to help? BS: Yes, lots of times, big old black pot, fill it up full of water to boil the clothes in have something they got in the mountains called "get wild antidote" for the bluing and they put it in a bag and tie that bag and put it in clothes while it boils and it whitened them. I remember gathering wild antidote (formula) not sure to put in the clothes and go up in the woods and gather it. I: Have you seen any in recent years? BS: Not recently, but I have done it. I: In your day? Smith 6 BS: Yes, I have. I: What about soap? BS: Well, they made their soap out of lye and grease. They would boil it, put it together, put the lye in there and then cut out big blocks and call it lye soap. I: Now, was this was just for washing? BS: Uh huh. I: Did they make the soap for bathing and stuff? BS: No, just for laundry. I: So, the other soap was store bought? BS: Uh huh, White Malpha Soap. I: White Malpha Soap? BS: Uh huh, until they finally got some fancy soap, but back then the White Malpha soap. I: Could your grandmother read? BS: No, she couldn't. I: Alright. Let's talk about your parents on your father's side. Do you remember your grandmother's name? BS: No, they came from Tennessee. I: OK. Now, your daddy's parents came from Tennessee? BS: That's right. My daddy had a sister and her name Eller Love. He just had his sister here and his sister came from Tennessee, too, but these other folks, I didn't know all of them. Just what he told me about having a brother and only one sister. I: Do you remember his father's name? BS: I remember his father's name Lee Love. I: But you don't remember your grandmother's name. BS: No, I don't. I: Did you ever see either of his parents? BS: No, I didn't. I: Do you think they were slaves? BS: Well, no they didn't ever mention it. I: What did you grandfather do for a living? Smith 7 BS: He was a butcher. I: A butcher? BS: Yes, in Waynesville. He worked in a store and cut meat and did slaughtering. I: Did he slaughter the hogs and cows and stuff? BS: Yes. He had a place to go out way out from the town to do the slaughtering. Then he would bring them back to the store. Had a horse and wagon then. I: OK. BS: Then he would slice the meat and fix it all up and put it in the counter and then he sold it to. They let him sell it too. I: Do you remember the name of the store? BS: Yes, I do. Let me think- the Jones'. I: So they had a store downtown and your father worked there as a butcher? BS: Uh huh, on main street. I: He sliced the meat and all that stuff? BS: Yes. I: At that time, did he make much as butcher? BS: Not like they do now. I: But was it enough to keep his family comfortable? BS: Sure was. Yes, right here in the same place where this house is. I: Oh. BS: It was a big house, it had three bedrooms but they still some slept in the living room. I: How many children? BS: Two, me and my brother. I: So, your father was a butcher, and he owned this home? I: Yes. BS: OK. I: Did your mother work outside the home? BS: She just did maid work. Smith 8 I: Was it customary practice for the older ones to take care of the young ones still a part of your family? BS: We took care of ourselves, we went to school you know and she would be back home by then. She go to work early and be home by the time school was out. I: I see. Now, did your mother and father read and write? BS: My daddy could, but mommy couldn't. I: Do you know who taught your daddy to read? BS: He went to school in Tennessee. I: How many grades did he finish? BS: It was something like fourth or fifth. I: But enough to read - did he read the Bible? BS: Uh huh, he could read anything. About third or fourth grade more I guess. I: Now, were they able to give you and your brother an education? BS: Yes, they seen to it that we went to school. I: How long was the school year? BS: I went to the ninth grade here in Haywood County. I: Haywood County? BS: Uh huh, that's as far as I went. I: If you wanted to go higher where would you have to go? BS: Well, we would have to leave here and go to Asheville to college, he couldn't afford it. I: How would you have gotten to Asheville? BS: Well, that was it, see back then he just didn't have the money. I: Did you parents own horse and buggy or car at that time? BS: No, they didn't. I: Did any of your brothers or sisters go off to get a better education? BS: No, my brother didn't. He just went here for a while, but they didn't have no high school. I: Now, once you finished the ninth grade, was that considered finishing high school? BS: No, it was three more years, and I didn't go no further. I: How old were you when you graduated? Smith 9 BS: Let’s see if I can remember. About 18. I: Why that age, normally you are about 14 today. Why did it take students so much longer? BS: I don’t know. I: What was the school year length? Did you go to school all year? BS: Nine months of school. I: Do you remember who your teacher was? BS: Yes, Ms. Ida Love and professor T.C. Patton, that’s all. I: Of course, all the grades were in one school? BS: Uh huh. I: Were the classes divided or anything like that? BS: Yes, they had a ninth-grade teacher and a third-grade teacher and I believe she taught the third and fourth grades. I: Do you remember any special events at school? BS: Well, no, not special. I: What about the end of school? BS: Yes, they had a big commencement they called it, we had programs you know. I: What did you do in the programs? BS: What was I, I can’t think. I: Was the whole school involved? BS: Uh huh. I: But you had a play? BS: Yes. I: Did you have costumes? BS: Yes. I: Who made them? BS: Different people, somebody in the neighborhood who did sewing and they would make them. I just can’t get together what it was, it has been so long. I: The play? BS: Yea. Smith 10 I: Were there cakes and pies and all that? BS: Uh huh. I: Did you ever hear of wrapping the maypole? BS: I helped wrap the maypole, yes, we had the pole out in front of the school in May. I: Those who graduated were in the ninth grade? Was there anything special done for them that day? BS: Yes, they had a graduation night, it wasn't much you know when they graduated from high school, that wasn't much. I: Were they given a certificate or something to show they had finished that far? BS: Yes, they did. I: What else do you remember about school? BS: I can’t remember much about it. I: Did you have to buy your own books? BS: Yes. I: Where did you have to go to get them? BS: We had a bookstore on main street and you would have to go there and buy I: So, everybody had to buy their books? BS: Yea, back then. I: Uh huh. Anything else about school? BS: Well every Friday we would have a program. I: What kind of program? BS: Some say a speech, some sing a song, just something. Then she would read us a Bible story every Friday. I can remember that good. I: What about discipline as you were growing up as a child at home and school? BS: Well they didn't whip much. Maybe paddle you in the hand or something like that, but to have a real whipping we didn't have them. Everything went along real good and nobody was beat too much or something like that. Seems like they was happy days. I: OK. The school building, was it not used for purposes other than teaching? Maybe fundraisers, something like that? Smith 11 BS: No, they would always go to the church because the school wasn't big enough to hold the people until they built a school. That time I was out at home, but if they had big business to take care of it would be in the church. I: OK. So, the church was a central part of the community as well as the school? BS: It sure was. I: And the church was used for things other than preaching. So, if the black community wanted a special fundraiser such as bake a cake to add on to the church or somebody needing something, then those activities were in the church too? BS: Uh huh. Sometime we would have commencement there also. I: What were some of the special things you did to raise money? BS: Well, back then they'd have suppers you know. Possum suppers is what they would have, they used to have them. I: A possum? BS: Yeah, I wouldn't eat a bite of it for nothing but I did then, I didn't know no better. I: Did you ever have what they call box suppers? BS: Yeah. I: Where the girls made the box and how did that go? BS: Yeah, you would have to invite the guy to eat with you, take the basket and eat dinner. I: Did you always have somebody in mind, or did the girls just take a box and maybe just decide once they had gotten there, I will ask John to share my box supper? BS: Yea, you would ask them. I: Did the boys have to pay for the meal? BS: No. I: He didn't? BS: No, we'd just have it. I: Well, how did you get money for this? BS: That wasn't for raising money, that was just social. I: Oh. Do you remember anything else like that in the black community? BS: Well, they had candy pulling. It's a homemade molasses, I don't know how they fixed them in a ball and they would pull candy - have candy pulling. I: Now what was the object of that? Smith 12 BS: Well now they would raise money paid so much for pulling on it and then they would use it for the school, take the money and use it for things in the school. I just can't remember much about it, it's been so long! I can't think of much. I: Maybe David will help you think? BS: I am not a good thinker. I believe everybody knows that. I: What about corn shucking, did they have that when you were younger? BS: I don't remember corn shucking, I just heard them talk about it. I: Well what did you do to celebrate the 4th of July? BS: Well just have like they do now. Firecrackers, put out a lot of firecrackers and things. I: Was there a special meal or anything like that? BS: No. They would just have firecrackers and get together and have watermelon and things like that. I: What kinds of games did you play when you were growing up? BS: Nothing much. The girls just played hopscotch. That was about all. I: What about ball, dolls? BS: Oh yes, we had dolls, all girls had dolls at Christmas time. I: Well let's pretend it was a Sunday afternoon after church. The young people were going to get together. What would they do? BS: Well they would go to a friend's house and play, nothing special. I: What about boyfriend/girlfriend? BS: About like it is now, but they was more stricter on the girls then. I: For example? BS: They wouldn't let them be off to their self, they'd let them be around where they was grown people to watch to see if they were doing things like that. I: Did any of the girls marry young when you were growing up? BS: Yea, same thing like they do now. I: Do you think they get married today too soon? BS: I didn’t hear? I: Was it a custom to get married after finishing the 9th grade? BS: Yes, you could, you were grown then at 18. Smith 13 I: Eighteen usually? BS: Uh. I: After finishing the ninth grade what did you do? BS: I didn't do anything only went to work, found me a job. I: Were at? BS: Maid work, house work things like that. I: Did you ever work for a particular family for a long length of time? BS: Yes, the Massie's. I: Of Massie Furniture downtown? BS: Yes. I: What did you do there? BS: Cook, cleanup, general cleaning. I: Did they have a big family? BS: Yes, they had a pretty big family. I: But you didn't have to take care of them? BS: No, they were grown, nearly grown then. I: Oh, I see. Did you ever leave Haywood County? BS: No. I: You've been here all your life? BS: Yes, I never have lived out of town. I: Have you traveled? BS: Not any. Haven't been anywhere except like Asheville or Sylva. Never been out of the state of North Carolina. I: I see, you mentioned earlier about playing and you said all the girls got dolls. What was Christmas like then when you were growing up? BS: We had dolls and candy just like they do now and Christmas trees. I: So, they had Christmas trees then? BS: Yea, but they was just plain pine trees, and we didn't have electric lights and things like that. They did have cake candles that sat down in the branch of the tree but we had to watch them you know because dangerous of catching the house on fire, but we lit it up with cake candle. Smith 14 I: Well. Did you have stockings and all that stuff? BS: Umhum. Old timey Christmas. I: Christmas Day, once the gifts were open was that the end of it? BS: Yes, after Christmas it was all over. I: Were there any special things before Christmas leading up to Christmas? BS: Yes, like wallpaper, except we would get newspaper and we would start doing the house way before Christmas paste with newspaper. I: Inside? BS: Yes, instead of using wallpaper we had newspaper we didn't have wallpaper. I: Was there a design? BS: No, it looked pretty and clean, it was white. Just open the paper out and make your paste like this. Rub that all over like that both sides then paste your house with it. Right now they call it packing. But now that's what we had to do. I: Was there anything written on the paper? BS: No, it was just plain newspaper. I: No coloring or anything? BS: No. Just paste it up. I: And that was part of the Christmas decoration? BS: Yes, the cleaning up make it look clean for Christmas. Then later on as the years passed on it goes by wallpaper. I: I've never heard of that. BS: I bet you ain't. An even the outside of toilet they paste it too before Christmas. Have it pasted and looked clean. I: Was there a special occasion at Christmas, a special celebration in the church? BS: Yea, they always had a Christmas program. You know they'd get a long pine tree and they would have presents you know if somebody wanted to give presents they'd fix them all up at home and take them to the church and they would call their names off and each one got a present from different people. I: Now, today in Sunday School, correct me if I am wrong, the Sunday School at Christmas time would give each child a bag of goodies, orange, apple, etc., is that true? BS: Yes, and at Easter time too they would give each person eggs in Sunday School for Easter. Christmas time exchange packages. Smith 15 I: Were most of the present made or what? BS: Buy some in store, like box of handkerchiefs which was popular then. I: Right. BS: Box of candy. We enjoyed ourselves when we was coming up, but it's not like it is now because we didn't have like they do now. I: Was there any visiting between the neighbors during Christmas? BS: Yes, on Christmas morning they'd be having "Christmas gifts" and they'd go to each house and sing Christmas songs in front of the house. Just enjoy Christmas. I: Was there a special custom for weddings? BS: No, just mostly they would go to the courthouse and let the magistrate marry them and then some would have a church wedding like they do now. I: When you and your husband married, did you live with your parents or did you have a home already? BS: I lived at home with my parents. I: Where did he live? BS: His home was down east, Lumberton, North Carolina. I: What is your husband's name? BS: John Smith. I: OK. BS: He came up here to janitor the white Baptist church. He janitored up there for years. I: Was this his source of income for raising his family? BS: Umhum, that's what he did, janitor. I: Did he do that all of his life? BS: Yes, he did that before he came up here. The preacher brought him up here from Lumberton. I: The minister? BS: Uh huh. He was a white minister. I: So, that' s how you two met? BS: Yea. I: How many children do you have? BS: We had four let's see three, we just had three. Smith 16 I: Three? BS: Uh huh. I: What are their names? BS: I had John Jr., George Smith, and David Smith. Oh, everybody knows David. And they all passed on. I: So, they are all passed on except for David? BS: Yes, they passed on at an early age. Thank you. I: Do you remember any other time in the history on Waynesville or in your family when there was a lot of sickness in the community? BS: You mean – well, yeah, a lot of people around got sick and died. I: Was there a particular cause? BS: Just different things. I: Was there anything like a flu epidemic here? BS: No, not special. I: How about a flood or anything else like that in Waynesville? BS: No floods or epidemics either. I: OK. If you were ill, did the doctor come to you or could you go to the doctor’s offices? BS: I would go to the offices. I: How were you treated then? BS: Nice, we had a family doctor, Stringfield has always been our family doctor. I: Oh. Were you allowed to sit in the room with the white people? BS: Yea. No difference, I go in just like they do and sit and wait till they get ready to go out. I: OK. Did you have your children at home or in the hospital? BS: I had one in the hospital, the rest of them were born at home, the other too. I: So, was there a midwife or did a doctor come or what? BS: Back then a doctor would come to your house and deliver the baby. But later on, they don't do it anymore. But when mine was coming along, why they came to the house except for one. I: Was there a midwife in the community? BS: Yes, we had two. Let's see, one was Granny Moore and the other was Nannie Trotter across town. Smith 17 I: So, you had two midwifes. BS: They could come and sit with you until it was all over. I: If you were ill and felt that you couldn't afford a doctor did your parents use herbs? BS: Well, we have if we get a real bad cold or something they would use Bonesap and different teas, spicewood tea for colds, high blood. But that Bonesap tea was bitter. I used many a dose of that. I: Did you ever use it with your children? BS: Uh huh. You can buy it in the drug store when they came along. We used to have to go out and gather it. I: Right. BS: But now you can go out and buy it. I: I see. What are some of the religious customs that you remember that are not practiced today? BS: Well, like if somebody is sick why they would go around and pray for the I: You said they? BS: The church minister would come with them but they don't do it anymore. I: Any other customs like that that we don't have any more? What about communion? BS: It's the same, they bring it around to your house if you cannot get to the church every first Sunday they'd bring the communion and then have prayer with it. We still do that. Not changed much. I: What has the biggest change in church in your lifetime? BS: People used to be more friendly than they are now. Yes, there is a big change. They used to go visit the sick. Sit and talk to you and ask if you needed help. Cleaning or mopping. They don't do it now. They don't seem to care as much about how you get along. I: What about tithing, was that part of your religious customs? BS: Yes, you had to pay tithes when you belonged to the church, whatever you were able to give. A tenth. I: Is that still done today? BS: It is in some churches but not all over. I: What about some of the church meetings? BS: Like associations? I: Yes. Smith 18 BS: They still have them, but they don't seem to be as religious as it used to be. When there is no spirit you can't draw people to come to church because the church is dead. You just sit there and if you clap your hands they turn all the way around and it just don't seem like it used to be. I: During the earlier days, the minister was considered to be a leader in the community. Is that still true? BS: Well, it supposed to be. I: The teacher was also considered a leader, is that still true? BS: Yes, that's right. I: Can you think of any other examples of people who were considered to be leaders when you were growing up? BS: Well, they looked up to them as a leader. I: Was there another person in the community if you had a problem where most people would go to someone who was very knowledgeable to answer questions or something like that? BS: Well we would always go to the preacher or teacher if you had a problem with the law. I: With the law? BS: Well we'd just have to go to court and take their decision whatever they decide. There wasn't no way of helping you out of that. I: So, you didn't haven't someone to turn to to tell you this is the law and they should treat you this or that way? BS: No, unless we bought a lawyer. I: Outside the preacher and teacher was there someone else in the community that people though a 1ot of? BS: Well mostly school teachers and the preacher, that's about all. I: What about today? BS: Well, they get them a lawyer. I: That's for law. What about general things such as a park for the black community for kids, who would speak to the county commissioners? BS: The Lion's Club. They'd go to them. I: Is it black or white? BS: Just black. I: Ah. Who is the leader in the Lion's Club? Smith 19 BS: The head leader is Albert Wheeler. I: So, they are active in the community? BS: Uh huh. So, if you need a chair, stool, or such and are sick he will see that you get one. I: Now is that a pretty large group of people? BS: There's quite a few who belong to the club. I: What about Masons? BS: There used to be some Masons here but it's not been for years. I: So, that is sort of dying out? BS: Yes, that's what it is. I: So, it's the Lion's Club now? BS: Yes, they will really help you if you need it. I: Could you give me another example of a thing they do for leadership? BS: That's about all the Lion's Club. Like my husband, he has been sick for about 11 years and if we need anything why they will see that we get it. But that is the only organization that is here that I know of. I: Let's go back a little ways. So, you’re 76 years old… BS: Uh huh. I: Do you remember any of your family members being in World War I? BS: No, my husband was too young to go. I: OK. BS: Too old for the World War II. I: What about your brothers? BS: No, none of them has ever been in the service. I got some nephews that was in the service. I: Was that World War II? BS: No, that was Vietnam. I: OK. Do you remember the Depression then? BS: In the 30's? I do, yes, I do know about that. They gave you stamps to buy things on back then you used lamps instead of electricity. They give you stamps for your oil, electricity. I: Was life harder for you during the depression? Smith 20 BS: It was. I: How was that? BS: Well, see you couldn't buy anything. They froze the lumber and you couldn't buy it, if you had the money to buy a house, you couldn't buy it, they even froze the nails. I: You couldn't be sold nails? BS: No. You couldn’t even buy meats, fatback and things like that. They used it all for the soldiers and sent it. It was hard about food to have anything to eat so the Social Service- they called it Welfare then- they would help and you could go to them and they would give you food. I: What kind of food would they give you? BS: Eggs, butter, cheese, and things like that. I: Is that like the program they have today for the elderly, the cheese, powdered milk, honey, and stuff like that. BS: Yes. I: Now was everybody on Welfare? BS: Not everybody. Some of them had good jobs and didn't need it, but some of the people just had to have some help. I: Anything else about the Depression? Did you get dry beans? BS: Yes, we had dried beans, peas and yellow corn meal, things like that. I: So, it was a bad time? After the Depression, did things gradually better? BS: Yes, they finally got better. You didn't get but about $.25 per hour for your work back then and so later on when it was over you could get $.75 per hour and some could get $1.00 per hour, a whole hour for a dollar. I: Now, what were they doing? BS: Housecleaning and things like that. You didn't get much for your work. I: Do you think that in Waynesville it was harder for blacks than whites? BS: It was about the same because I went to pick up my commodities and there was just as many whites there as colored. Sometimes they would get in fights and knock the front glass out, pushing and shoving, one trying to get in front of the other one to pick up their commodities. It was just awful. I: Was there meat too? BS: Not much meat, hardly got any meat. I: What other era do you remember other that the Depression? Smith 21 BS: I can' t think of anything. I: What do you think about the civil rights movement with Martin Luther King? BS: I think that was just awful, but then it was good in a way because of the way we were treated. We had to get in the back of the bus and could only go to certain places like laundries with "White only" signs because they don't want you. When you went to work for people you had to go in the back door, you mustn’t not go in the front. I: So, you think the civil rights movement was good in that respect? BS: Yes, except so many people got hurt and killed at the time of it, but it sure got things like it should be. I: Well, would you say since the civil rights movement, that the roles of the black person in the community have changed? BS: Yes, they treat them nice, just like human beings and I just think it is wonderful. I: Do you remember anything happening in Waynesville during that time? BS: We didn't have that problem. I: What about in the stores, cafes, things like that? BS: Well, still you can walk in any place and eat, and used to you couldn't. I: So, if you couldn't eat in a cafe, if you couldn't go to a movie show, what did black people do for fun? BS: Oh, they let them go to the show all right. I: Oh, they would? BS: Here you could always go. We just didn't have that problem about fighting going on. I: Before the civil rights, what were the relationships like between white and black people even as a child? BS: We growed up with the white people, and they have always been nice to us. We didn't have no problem. I: Were there ever any times when the groups would get together for a celebration or church? BS: Colored people could go to the white people's weddings. Somebody we knowed and wanted to go to the wedding, we'd go and there wasn't no trouble. I: Do you remember a time when the white people would come to the black people's church? BS: They did and they still do. I: What about black going to the white churches? Smith 22 BS: They don't mind. We had white friends to the house and played with white children too. It wasn’t bad like it is now about the white and blacks. Well, it really ain't bad now because if a colored boy has got a white girlfriend there's no trouble, you don't hear nothing about it. But you used to slip around so you might as well to put it out in public. They used to string them up back then for that. I: Did you ever hear of anything like that it Waynesville? BS: Well, yes, I heard, they told me about it. I was too young. I heard they hung a colored person here, but for going with a white woman. Yes, I heard, but it wasn't in my time, I didn't see it. I just heard about it. I: Do you think the role of the black man has changed today? BS: Yes, I do because they have better jobs than they did back then. I: What made the difference? BS: I think just time, because they couldn't do nothing but maid work and cook and things like that. Now that has changed. White people do most of their work themselves. You don't see people working like they used to. I: So, what did most of the black people do? BS: For a living? I: Yes ma’am. BS: Most of them works in plants. You don't see people work and cook like they used to. Florida people used to come and get workers in their homes, but most of them have built homes here and they have dishwashers and all of that and they just don't have to have people work for them anymore. So, the most things we can do here now is work in plants. I: In your community if you will just think for a moment, what are sane of the new jobs that the black people can do? BS: I tell you what. They have these plants in here and they used to not let colored people work in these plants. You know they first started out making pencils up here in Hazelwood and they had young white girls and they would go get them a job. Wouldn't let a colored person work in there. They would let them clean the bathrooms and things like that, but they wouldn't give them a job doing plant work. I: Are they black teachers, nurses, anything like that in Waynesville? BS: Yea, we got colored nurses here. I: Now, in the earlier days, were black people allowed to go to the hospital if they were ill? BS: Yes, they always let them cane to the hospital. I: Was there a special area for black people? Smith 23 BS: No. Put you in there and tend to you just like they would a white. That' s the reason I don' t think they have been too hard on the colored here. I: Is there anything else about your life you would like to share with me and I haven't asked? BS: I don't think so. I: What do you figure to be the greatest achievement in your life? BS: It's being saved and living for God because before my change I drank a lot and that's all a shame and I think that is the best thing. That's what I want my children to remember. Because I did drink a lot but when I got saved I quit and tried to live for Jesus. It makes me so happy. I: Let me ask you one more question. Were there members of your families who had special gifts, by what I mean tell stories, make music, carpenters? BS: No. They didn't have any gifts. I: Anyone who sewed? BS: I have had some but they have passed on. I: What about any brothers and sisters? Did any of them go on to be professional people? BS: No. Nothing special. I: Was there a storyteller in your family? BS: Well, I'm trying to think. No. I: How about a coffin maker? BS: No. I: Oh, that's what I meant to ask you. Are the funerals today different from those of yesteryear? BS: Well, yes, they are different. They used to have—well, when I was a child they used to use horses to carry the hearse. I can especially remember one woman who was so big they had to make her casket, her coffin, and they used horses to carry the coffin to the cemetery. That was something and back then a death was really something else and everybody wore black, you know, and it was so depressing. I: Oh, you mean beyond family members? BS: Most everybody who attended. They wore black and the hearse was black. I can remember it so well, that was when I was growing up. It just seemed more depressing then at a funeral than it does now because people just don't mourn like they did back then when they lose some of their family or something. Now it just don't seem so depressing. I: Was there was a mourning period? Smith 24 BS: Yes, they would wear black for six months I think, that' s what made you feel so bad. Now they don't have all of that and you don't feel so bad over a funeral. I: What about the wakes? BS: Oh, yes, that was terrible. They would set up all night long and sing and pray, the Christian people would. The rest of them might get drunk and sometimes turn the coffin over. They stopped it then and they take them to the funeral home and it is much better. Why it was just awful. I: Well, before the black people were allowed to go to the funeral home, how was the odor kept away? BS: Well, they bring the coffin to the house and then they put some turpentine in a saucer and set in the chair and was suppose to the kill the germs or the scent. You know back then they didn't do the embalming. I: Right. BS: That turpentine would set there and they would haye the wake all night long. The next day they would bury them. There's no wonder people felt so bad when people died. It's so much better now. You don't mourn and go on like that. They sure don't and it is much better. I: Can you think of anything else like that in your life that has changed? BS: I just can’t think of anything else. I: Well thank you so much, Mrs. Smith.

Birdell Love Smith is interviewed by Edward Clark Smith on September 16, 1986 as a part of the Western North Carolina Tomorrow Black Oral History Project. Living in Haywood County all her life, Smith talks about her family lineage and attending school and church fundraisers. She discusses activities such as candy pulling, Christmas, Fourth of July, courting, church customs, and funerals. Smith recalls restrictions on goods during the Great Depression and how the civil rights movement improved social and working conditions for African Americans.

• Creator
  • Smith, Birdell Love, 1910-1988
• Contributor
  • Smith, Edward Clark
• Format
  • Sound recordings
  • Transcripts
  • Interviews
• Type
  • Sound
  • Text
• Date
  • Date interview: 1986-09-16
  • Date: 1920s; 1930s; 1940s; 1950s; 1960s; 1970s; 1980s;
  • Date digitized: 2019-01-23
• Extent
  • Duration: 01:10:58 (sound recording)
  • Duration: 24 pages (transcript)
• Subject - Topic
  • African American families
  • African Americans
  • African Americans -- Economic conditions
  • African Americans -- Genealogy
  • African Americans -- Social conditions
  • African Americans -- Social life and customs
  • Autobiography
  • Depressions -- 1929
  • Events
  • Smith, Birdell Love, 1910-1988 -- Interviews
• Location
  • Haywood County (N.C.)
  • North Carolina, Western
• Source institution
  • Western Carolina University
• Source Collection
  • Western North Carolina Tomorrow Black Oral History Project
• Identifier
  • HL_MSS98-03_Smith_Smith_1986-09-16
• Repository
  • Western Carolina University Hunter Library