• Format
  • Transcripts
  • Interviews
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  • Duration: 21 pages (transcript)
• Source institution
  • Western Carolina University
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  • MHC_Mansfield_DuPree_1996-03-04_transcript

DuPree 1 Interviewee: Betty DuPree Interviewer: William Mansfield Location: Cherokee, NC Date: May 4, 1996 Duration: 1:18:37 William Mansfield: Okay, tell me who you are. Betty DuPree: I'm Betty DuPree, from Qualla Arts and Crafts, Cherokee, North Carolina. WM: Alright. And I've got some, I made up some questions, so I'd know what to ask. BD: Oh, okay. Good. WM: Okay. Um, maybe you could give me a general history of Qualla Arts and Crafts and the tourist industry in Cherokee. BD: Well, Qualla Arts and Crafts was established in back in 1946 and we're celebrating our 50th anniversary this year. For our market for Cherokee crafts, which my belief is that if there hadn't been for Qualla Arts and Crafts, we would have no Cherokee crafts today because it created a market, people had a place to bring their baskets in the dead of winter or, crafts, not necessarily just baskets. And a market in the wintertime. And that was the main purpose in mind was to create this market and what we did with it I guess after we got it was our problem to figure it out, but we've you know, always been able to sell it. Of course, Qualla had several other locations, shops besides this one, before they moved here in 1960, and we've just got a prime location here in Cherokee now and we're just big business, and of course that's all the tourists, the tourists are the ones that support us. We don't sell many local baskets to local Cherokees because the tourists and they find us, wherever we are. Most people are looking for an organization like this, an Indian co-op or Indian gift shop or craft shop, whatever you want to call it, a tribal enterprise every place is a reservation. And they are, they know most of them have them, of course none of them have as nice as what we have here now. And I'll fight you if you disagree with me on that. WM: As nice, you mean, a facility? BD: Uh, facility, and crafts and some organization with the store. They might have a fairly nice store. Well I went to one up in Niagara Falls last fall, they've had their power turned off. They can't even make enough money to pay the light bill. And I was with a young Englishman, and I wanted him to see the Indian stuff, and we had to look at it in the dark. So at least we’ve always been able to pay the light bill. WM: Could I borrow a pencil, I left mine in the car, and I might just need to make notes. Well could you tell me, I'm not very well informed about what Qualla does, so could you tell me how, what you all do? DuPree 2 BD: We have about 400 members that belong to Qualla Arts and Crafts. They all have over the years presented their craft to a standards committee who judges them and accepts them for membership in our organization. They have joined, they bring after they're accepted as members and they can sell their merchandise here, they don't have to sell us everything they make. We don't have to buy everything they make. We buy just the supply and demand that we need. But they have so many benefits by selling here. They not only get their purchase price, but every six months they get a 5% dividend on everything they've sold us. WM: Okay. So they, you pay the craftspeople for their crafts? BD: Cash. Everything's outright. Nothing's on consignment. Everything we have is bought they day they bring it in. Every six months we pay them the 5% dividend. Christmas they get 3% of their equity, it's all in equity accounts, there's no, you know, it's all on paper. May not necessarily have the money, but we got the building and all the crafts to support our claim. And Christmas time we give them a 3% equity and last year some of those checks were $900.00. WM: Wow. BD: And our old people, 60 or over can get a senior citizen check, and that was, it depends on the equity they have in the company, up to $1,000.00. So some of those people got, we noticed last year was our, the dividend, the Christmas, the senior citizen check, and the per capita check, our inventory dropped off that two weeks right before Christmas, cause our inventory was down, and we got to thinking how come, trying to figure out why. It was two weeks they didn't produce and sell, like normally to get ready for Christmas, which hurt us a little bit on inventory but I'm glad that they didn't have to work so darned hard there, had two weeks to kinda rest. Everything is paid for when they walk in the door with it, if we buy it, and then we take it and go on, on from there. WM: Okay. So you all are just a focal pull, focus point for craftspeople to bring their stuff and you buy it and then sell it for the tourists. And you all guarantee the authenticity, the quality- BD: Um-hmm. Sure do. WM: Of what you market. Well, and you all, do you all involve any other Native American population or is it just? BD: Well our main purpose is, are Cherokees. But when the World's Fair came to Knoxville, Tennessee, I guess, what '76 or, no, '78 or '80 or when- WM: I think it was 1983 to tell you the truth. BD: Somewhere, yea, that sounds right, cause we've had the bicentennial and all this stuff. We'd always, they'd always sold silver, turquoise and silver, even before I came here. But then the Board, which is the governing body of our membership, we have ten elected Board members, and they really do all the rules and regulations. And they decided that we weren't DuPree 3 gonna have enough Cherokee crafts to supply the World's Fair crowd. Cause we were gonna have all these millions of people which didn't get here. But so they decided that we's sell all crafts from other Indian tribes and we have a corner of our shop over there that's crafts from other tribes. And it has done very well for us, cause we can do the same thing with as our Cherokee thing. It's genuine, it's good and we'll vouch for it, you know. And people knowing our reputation buy it because they know if we've got it, it must be, you know, pretty good stuff. And it's a fun part of the job for me. It's different from buying baskets every day. I can go out west and buy all this stuff, and it's a fun thing for me. WM: Oh, I bet that is. BD: Uh-huh. It's fun. And I'll trade a lot. If Indian people come through, passing through, and maybe want a basket, I'll, a Cherokee basket, and I'll see what they're peddling, and we'll trade out. So that's kind of a barter system. It's fun too. WM: I think that'd be a lot more fun than dealing with [inaudible]. BD: It is. It really is. And most of 'em aren't really too interested in selling, they'll just ask if I'm buying, and usually I don't buy when people walk in off of the street. I am try to you know find out, really, I make 'em set up an appointment so I can kinda check 'em out to make sure, cause I have to back all that, this stuff with that new Indian Arts and Crafts law that was passed. I have to be able to vouch for it. But these Indian people come in having something in a little cigar box and well, what did you want? Well, I'd like this basket. Well, I'll figure out how much they, I can take of their stuff. And it really is fun. WM: Oh, I bet. Well, can you tell me a little bit about the elected board members? BD: They're elected once a year, the second Thursday in February is our annual meeting and our election and they're, we have a president, vice-president, a secretary, and treasurer. And they're elected, and of course they're all craftspeople, they're not the local banker or nobody is on our Board. WM: Okay, so the people on your Board are the same folks- BD: Are the members, uh-huh. And so then the other seven Board members represent different crafts, like the baskets, and the potter and the bead workers and the woodcarvers, and the a, miscellaneous, a couple of miscellaneous seats, and things like that, so. Davy Arch is our vice-president. And they're elected by just, in our members, in that meeting. And we, they don’t change really too often. Our first president lasted 30 years so and then the next one came along and he lasted maybe 12 or 15 so. WM: Well they must have been doing a good job, and must have enjoyed it. BD: Well that's what the older members you know, it's like anything else, newer members, younger members they get off on this crusade on where they're gonna improve the world. But the old people realize how great Qualla, what Qualla has done for them over the years, and it's really hard to change their mind. I guess unless Lloyd Owle just came in and stole every penny of money we had they'd probably still elect him, cause you know he's done, and DuPree 4 I have day to day running operation of the store. I don't, they don’t, they don't have any day to day operation, which I tell 'em there's no need for them to pay me and then them do that, so, and it works out really well. So of course, they're there, Lloyd and Davy, if I need them for anything, and they meet on a fairly regular basis, just the Board, so. And they have regular meetings throughout the year to, for a while the first-year Lloyd was elected we met every month, which was not really necessary so much as, it was a new Board and he kinda wanted them to you know, really get into the swing of things. And they really take interest in, you know, the newer ones, and if they hear anything or anything doesn't make, doesn't quite sit with 'em they'll come right in to find out about it, which I'm glad they do. You know, like if we have any problems, we can straighten them out as it goes along. We got a very good Board. WM: Well, could you tell me what kind of issues they deal with? BD: Uh, mainly are we gonna get our checks today. They, anything of the operation, when we meet in November, we usually have a Board meeting toward the end of November, it's to pay the Christmas checks, and to, all the money going out for Christmas. I need Board approval for that, before I write a check of any kind for that much money, I want somebody to say so besides me. My budget, I present an annual estimated budget to them, they go over that. And just anything else that might, that might come up. We're working now on a new policy manual for, you know, we've had a problem with an employee a couple of years ago, so we thought if we'd had a little stronger policy that we wouldn't have had that, so we're working on that. We'll have that ready by the next time they meet. So, it's just, any just like a, it doesn't last long, so. WM: Well, have you had, when you talked about that Native American Art law? BD: The law, uh-huh. WM: Right. Did you, have you had much trouble with non-Native people trying to pass their work off as Native American? BD: Um-hmm. In fact, Qualla had four, four people as members that weren't on any roll in the world. And I don't know how they got on, I mean, I even thought these people were enrolled members. They've lived here forever. But when they got down, I heard rumors that maybe they weren’t enrolled members, and sure enough they weren’t. So, we had four, there was three sisters and a niece, it was all the same family, and the Board made that decision, even though they had equity in the company, we paid them off. And we wrote them letters and quoted the law, and told them that since they weren't an enrolled member that we would have to terminate, that we couldn't buy from them and that this money, when funds were available, cause we don't do anything that would jeopardize the organization, I wouldn't pay off lots of money in January to settle a claim like this, and we can, the Board could decide that when funds were available I could pay that off and there wasn't any question about it. Even though they had no leg to stand on. And it was really sad that you know that they couldn't be, but somehow, they got in, somewhere way back when, and I guess just when they, one of them probably almost when they organized, they probably were just signing up people and she just signed up, and no one ever, ever questioned. And so, that was the Board's decision, after that law and you know we had to, we couldn't have them. So, if anybody wants to know if everybody you have selling here is an enrolled member, we've got it on our computer. We could run it off in a minute, and we've eliminated those four people. DuPree 5 It really wasn't any problem. They had several thousand dollars each in their equity, but we just paid it off and went on their way with it. But now we're more careful now of with taking in new members when they come, cause you know all these people but you're not real sure about things like that. So, when they come in, we ask to bring stuff to present for membership. We ask for roll numbers. And then before it's you know it's ever been voted on or anything, we check with the tribal office to make sure that you know that they are legally enrolled and everything. And we've not had any, not had anybody bring stuff that wasn't, so we haven't really had any problem. WM: Well that's good. I know that's a real touchy [inaudible]. BD: Boy it's, it really is. But we've got that law to back us up and people that I buy from in this corner, and these Indian people that come in to trade, I can get this information from them, the Census numbers or enrollment numbers, whatever they want to call them. The locality, you know, what state, what tribe, and everything. Most of the time we don't have to you know write up any kind of a statement or anything, but if somebody buys something kind of expensive they want to know a little bit about it, and if they're buying it for kind of an investment- WM: What do you say, if I were in your place, I would be, initially angry at someone for claiming to be Indian when they're not, no matter what the quality of their craft, you know. BD: That's the first question I ask them, if they come. Do you, are you an enrolled member? Do you have an enrollment card. And I'm really pleased when they'll pull them out and show them to me. And then every so often, like one man got so mad one day, he said, '[ know who I am right here. I don't have to have a card to tell me who I am.' But I said 'goodbye'. So he didn't have a card. And others will come in, and I'll ask them, that's the first question I'll ask them, and they'll say, a lot of them will pull them right out and show them to me. But I don't, that's one reason I try, if I'm gonna buy a lot of stuff from somebody I want them to call and make an appointment, then, in the meantime I can be making a phone call or two to say so and so is going to come see me, are they legit? And things like that. Just for the organization's, and see the thing is, if this stuff is being sold here and I sold it and I couldn't vouch for it, I could go to jail, and be fined $250,00.00. I'm not gonna do that. WM: I don't blame you one bit. I just think the integrity of what you all represent is really paramount and that's what you want to protect. BD: Yea. So, we work real hard at that, and I do all the buying from that crafts of other tribes. And of course, the Cherokee stuff, the girls know them, and but they'll come. Boy they're coming out of the woodwork, these Indians. WM: I can imagine. BD: They are here in force, but you can always tell who has a card or some enrollment or who has- WM: What about tribes that aren't recognized, like, I think there's the Lumbees’ east of here. BD: The Lumbees, and the- DuPree 6 WM: There's the Haliwas, I believe. BD: I don't have any dealings with those. Now I do buy some stuff from down south of New Orleans, the homeless Indians, they're way south of New Orleans. They've been working 25 years probably on recognition. I doubt if they will ever get it, they, I think maybe they really should you know, but they, they're not like the Lumbees, they're not as strong as the Lumbees, and they don't have the money and everything with that. Now I have bought, and buy a little bit of stuff from them, mainly because the woodcarving, we sent Cherokee woodcarvers down there to teach them how to carve, and I think that is kind of our tie, you know with that. But we identified as homeless Indians, down at Dulac, Louisiana, and I think they're a lot, well they're kind of like the Lumbees. They're mixed, mixture of a lot of things. And every time a hurricane comes through here, it blows 'em away. And you know you feel so sorry for people like that that you kind of help them a little bit. But we, you know I feel like, the Indian Arts and Crafts Board sent Cherokee woodcarvers down there to teach them how to carve, so I feel like we need to, they do some wonderful carvings, though, so, I sneak a little bit of that in every so often, but that's, one year I had a, some dolls from a Lumbee girl, and we sold them, but I never heard anything more from her. But you know, it still there, like the Lumbees are state-recognized. WM: Well I think they was recently federally recognized. I know they're trying really hard. BD: Yea, they're trying really hard. I don't think they'll ever make it though. It'd make too many Indians in North Carolina and that would hurt us. So we're not really in support of that, but they, those homeless down in Louisiana, I feel like have a, should have a bit of chance, because they have some history. See the Lumbees don't have any history or any culture. And they're always trying to you know, make up this history and this culture, and they don't have it. They apparently are were renegades, all renegades from all races of people, and they really from what I can understand about them, but, we see quite a bit of them, there's quite a few up here, but they really aren't that big in the craft world. They're you know, more into education, they've all got a Ph.D in this or something. WM: Well, back to tourism, you were telling me about the effect of tourism on the Cherokee and Cherokee people. Could you elaborate? BD: Well if it wasn't for tourism, we'd have no business at all. It's of course, being in North Carolina, I guess what North Carolina's about tourism's about their second biggest industry now, and it certainly is probably, probably our second one, because sometimes it's the biggest, but I think year-round it'd probably be about the second biggest industry we have other, the, a couple of plants, a casino, the bingo hall, agency, the hospital, and the school and different things that do provide income, but the rest of it is tourism. And our, here we're doing a million dollars a year, and it's all tourism, here in this store. So, if it wasn't for tourism, we wouldn't even need to be here. So it is our main, our main livelihood, and we can tell when the roads are open, if the road is closed over the mountains, we're not, you know, doing anything. I tell these kids this morning, when the shut-down, the federal shutdown came, on Monday we did over $2,000.00 in the shop and the next day after they closed the mountain we did $197.00. So, that kind of, of course it picked up a little bit the rest of the week. But when that road's closed, it just, it kills us. And we're getting a lot, coming in 441 South up from Atlanta in that direction and 'we you know, from Asheville and around. We pick it up but we can certainly tell it when it's closed, you know this road is DuPree 7 closed. But it's our main lifeline. WM: You said something about the tourists feed you, or make it possible, what was that you said? BD: They, well we were talking about tourists not here yet and getting ready to come and you know, you were making the comment you didn't know you know, how you felt, but they're gonna feed me next winter so I'm here waiting on them. And they we think about that, my staff too, you know that sometimes you want to get kind of ugly with some of them and everybody that comes in is the Cherokee, the great-grandmother was a full-blood Cherokee, you get you know really tired of listening to that. But you can't really complain cause they're gonna pay our salaries, cause we're not making any money now, next spring and summer when they get here they're gonna be paying us for next winter, so we just smile and grit our teeth and go on our way because that is our lifeline, and I wish we could get more things, maybe not necessarily in the summer I think maybe the summer months we're about at capacity of what we could do, and the people we could take care of. But I wish we could get our season longer, and the casino people aren't here to buy a Cherokee basket. And we know that. But last year they, the casino was in the same place and it didn't hurt our year at all. I had really worried about that. It didn't bother us a bit. So, I don't think, this year we've got the Olympics to fall back on, but we're constantly promoting any, anything we can do to bring more people in here. I do quite a bit of advertising, I've got, Saturday 12 I think, 12 or 14 labels, Blue Ridge Country magazine and, for catalogues. And I'm thinking, well, now, and then the thing says Thank You for advertising with us, and I thought well, I didn't advertise with you. But then the Smoky Mountain Host did a brochures ad and it had a lot of, we'd paid several hundred dollars to put our brochures in this thing, and people mark off the one to get, and I didn't even know where they were putting them out. Well that, the 14 or so we got Saturday came from this one magazine. So, I went home and found my magazine and there's our brochure right in there. So, we couldn't afford an ad in Southern Living cause that's a little too much but we could afford this little brochure thing. And apparently, it's gonna pay off for us. And then by that, they're requesting our catalogues, then we mail out a catalogue, and that costs us $2.00 but if they're gonna maybe end up ordering $100.00 then we've got our $2.00 back or something like that. And we've had a woman from Wisconsin that ordered a bunch of baskets. Well, I don't know where she heard about us. We got something like Saturday a check for $800.00 for her baskets. Another one is the girl has been working with in Texas, see if I'd answered the phone, or did anything on the phone, I'd ask them where did you hear about us, or something like that, but sometimes they don't, or if they do, I don't ever follow up on it. She's ordered half a dozen baskets, and she's calling and they're taking pictures and mailing them back to her. And every time they mail pictures, she's ordered something. So, we keep, you know, we do a small amount mail order. I wish we could get to do it, you know, bigger scale, but it's just not worked out there, that way. But we can't like going off and doing a show, if I went to Cullowhee to do a show, I probably wouldn't make gas money over there and back. But I can take my stuff and we can go 500 miles and we can do you know very well, so you know that's kind of baffled me. I don't quite understand that, unless it' s the people that go to these shows that can, oh, we can go to Cherokee and get that. We used to do the craftsman's fair in Asheville, and we'd heard people, we had a good selection of everything over there, and they'd say oh, well let's don't get it here, we can drive over to Cherokee so, I thought well, fine, I'll just… DuPree 8 WM: That's like, profits without honoring your own land. BD: Yea. And I thought, well why are we off over here paying them a booth fee. We'll stay in Cherokee. And they do, they come. But Saturday we had a big basket sale, and this man, let's see, came in that morning and brought me a box of candy and then went on to a meeting and came back. Those great big baskets, there's one sitting right over here, that big cane basket. He said “Do you sell many of these?” And I said, “Well, they're $1,500.00.” I said “Well we sold 2 last year.” And finally, he kept on talking and he said 'I'm gonna take that one.' It was this one. And I said, you know, I still wasn't thinking he was going, you know, I didn't really know, was kind of surprised this early in the season with big money, and I said “Well that one over there has a better shape.” It really did come up more. He said, “Well, I'll take it then.” He turned around and bought that one and a $400.00 basket to go with it, and I thought, so I told the girls I said, “Here I am, I have to come out of my office and come out here and sell baskets for you.” WM: That was quite a sale. BD: Yes. And, but last year, those great big baskets, the 2 we sold, we sold both of them the same day. It was the craziest thing. So now we've got one, but we'll- WM: Oh, I'm certain you'll sell some. BD: Oh, we'll get rid of it, yea. I, I'm gonna go into a lot of silver jewelry, cause that's what we found that foreign people will buy. It's easier to carry home. Baskets, you know, it's too hard to carry something like that, and we, even though we do ship. So, it's, I'm gonna, I've got salesmen coming here the end of this month, and I'll be in Colorado next month and I'm gonna really stock up on really good silver. Make something for everybody. WM: It's my notion that if somebody'd pay $1,500.00 for a basket, they can certainly pay to have it shipped home. BD: Yea. Well that's the thing, we get a lot of calls, and with our catalogue, we get lots of requests for our catalogues from overseas, we have a little thing in there that says if you're, you know, in another country, how we do it. And we, of course, they always send credit card numbers. So we get the package ready, and we go to the post office, and we get the price for the postage, and then we just add that right on to the credit card. Sometimes it's really, kind of shocks you how expensive it is, but we've never had a complaint. WM: Well, sending something half-way around the world. BD: I know it. And one day I answered the phone and it was a man from Lockerbie, Scotland, and all I knew about Lockerbie, Scotland was the plane crash. And fortunately, he said, unfortunately it was, it's us you know, and he ordered like something $20.00, I think it cost almost another $20.00 to mail it to him, but he didn't mind. One year I sold a feathered headdress, it was in our crafts of other tribes, and to a church in South Wales, and every day, they called me about 1:30 in the afternoon, that was about the right time to, they bought the headdress, and we shipped it to South Wales to a church. And it got, I got so, you DuPree 9 know I couldn't understand that, why, you know, what kind of a church would want a feathered headdress. So, the last time I was in England, we were visiting some people, and we were telling them about the headdress. Well we all got so caught up in it, we went to South Wales to the church to see the headdress. They had it, and they'd built a case bigger than this desk, glass thing, and had that headdress in there. Somehow with their weird religion, I never did figure out what that was, some, Indians had some part in it. And it was, we all went in, and we all looked, there was four of us, and we came out, we didn't know anything more about it than we did when we went in. And we were all gonna find out so much about it, but it was, I haven't heard anything else from them. I thought well, that was really kind of strange. And they'd sent me pictures of it, and oh, they were so pleased with it. WM: Well, maybe it's better that you don't know. BD: Probably is. I'd taken a little set of dance wands, and something else, and I thought well, I'd give them a little gift when I got there. Well they'd already bought that, so they had bought, but there it seemed like one of the women in the church, her children lived somewhere in North Carolina, so I guess they're here quite often. But the old lady was some kind of a faith healer, or something like that. They had the weirdest alter. They had a lot of purple plastic grapes, and it was a treat. And we all went in and we were all gonna find out all this stuff and we left, we were just sitting there, well, what did we find out? Nothing. WM: Well you found out enough to- BD: Not to ask any more. It was crazy. WM: Well you were talking about promotion. Could you tell me a little bit more about that, cause we kinda got sidetracked into the catalogue story? What all do you do to promote? BD: Uh, we do quite a bit of advertising, I don't have a monstrous advertising budget so I usually try and stretch it as far as we can. We go use the Cherokee Historical Association and the Museum and travel and promotion and Qualla, and we do kind of cooperative ads. And we can find, we found out that the four of us or so can buy a whole page somewhere, and we're all there together. Now if you buy a little something here, says Cherokee here and the rest of this is Gatlinburg, you might as well throw you money down the drain, cause that's not gonna do you any good. But if we can get a whole page toward the center of the book or somewhere that, and we do that real often and we can get, you can get, they'll let you buy maybe a fourth of a page, compared to having to purchase a whole page. So, we do lots of cooperative ads. WM: In what sort of magazines do you all advertise in? What kind of- BD: Uh, any. I try to get mine in well, you know whatever they want. The Smoky Mountain Host, they have a little guidebook and we get it in that. Cherokee Travel and Promotion, they have a similar guidebook, and we of course are represented in that. Anything that goes up on the Blue Ridge Parkway anything, cause there's not too many papers that the Blue Ridge will let you know put out up there. So we try to get in that one, and they put them out along the Blue Ridge so people are able to pick them up. There's a Blue Ridge Digest or DuPree 10 something that Tom Hardy does from over around Clyde, that's pretty good. We just try to, not necessarily the great big elaborate things, but things that people will pick up. WM: So, it's geared towards tourist literature? BD: Right. uh-huh. Yea. WM: More so than like Southern Living? Or Georgia Life? BD: Yea. You can't afford those. WM: So, tourist things. BD: Uh-huh. Tourist things. And with, I don’t care if I bought this ad, I don't care if Qualla is even mentioned in it. Cause once they get to Cherokee, they're gonna find me. If they get, I'll help pay for your ad, you don't even have to mention me, cause when they get to this traffic light, I've got 'em. And I don't have to worry about that. I want, I want, I think our first aim needs to be get 'em to Cherokee, and then let 'em you know, and then maybe at our visitor center something they can pick up, a map or something and find you know, where they're going here. We get a lot of requests for people just wanting information about, of course we refer them to, or take their name and address and give it to the visitor center. But I want, I don't, and people say, well not you got this page and you, where you gonna put me? I don't care whether I'm even on there, I want something great big that says you know, come to the reservation or something like that, because once they get here they're gonna find me, and there's people that come, not everybody can come in here and buy a basket. I can watch 'em from the front door and tell if they're in the wrong store or not. But they're gonna buy gasoline, they're gonna rent a room, they're gonna buy food, and maybe they're gonna buy something from the junk shop. And that's tribal levy for the tribe, and some, you know, that's gonna come back to my craftspeople, somehow. And the ones I get, you know, I'll get 'em. We've been established too long to really worry about that. I said if we were sitting up on top of that mountain right now, people would find us. Because we're that established. But I, we do anything over in, it's hard to get into Gatlinburg, it's impossible to get into Gatlinburg, their rack, any kind of that, we do a lot with Pigeon Forge. I do a couple of there. WM: When you say we do, you mean like you advertise? BD: Um-hmm. But the same thing is, you get more places, probably don't even have that last one I got, uh- WM: Oh, that's okay. BD: Well this is something, another rate card from someplace else. But when you see that ad, that center ad, I want everything they got from Cherokee to go right on that end, and then you know that center where it's all together. And they're really good to do that to sell it. Santa's Land will usually join in, and we can usually get you know, maybe six of us and it's not that bad. But we've got the whole page. Down in Bryson City they have a little tourist news, and it's a little black and white thing, and it's not really that great but it's not DuPree 11 expensive, but they print a lot of papers, and I can put them out for my customers to pick up. They like to pick up free things. And I advertise a little bit in that, I think it costs me about, in the summertime about $250.00 a month. And every so often, about once a month or so, they write a little, the same little story they've reprinted about us, and things like that, and the customers like that. Anything that I can get something that my customers can, locally that they can take back. Now those on the Blue Ridge I don't really care about that, cause I want people to get them up there, and Gatlinburg, the Smoky Mountain tours, they do a lot of shows, and they take, we pay them I think $500.00 a year, they take our brochures and put them in their packets when they go to these AAA shows. And they're very, very good. So we get that exposure, and then when all during the year, we get requests from these AAA offices in different places, they need more of our brochures. Some of them want 10, some 25, some 50 or maybe somebody wants 100. We're in all the Welcome Centers in North Carolina. We just sent 1,000 brochures to Waynesville. They just drop us a little card saying we're almost out of your brochure, please ship us so and so. So we pack em up and send them right off. So getting in the North Carolina Welcome Centers was really a plus for us. And see that doesn't cost us anything it's just getting the brochures printed and getting there. I had this one, I've been saving this is one of the AAA things. They want these, but they failed to put their address on it. WM: Oh, well that makes it tough, doesn't it? BD: They'd written a nice little note and everything, and I went ahead and packed the brochures and I got ready to fix the shipping label, and there's no way I could find out who they are. WM: Maybe if you could trace the postage meter number, that might help somehow or another. BD: Yea. It was up in Louisville. I thought well, maybe they'll send us another one. Anyway, and see they're coded, so we know that's Smoky Mountain Tour Company, so we know where we're getting, so we can track those. WM: Ok. Well, do you mind telling me a little bit about the history, I don't want to take up too much of your time. BD: No I was just- WM: When you get tired or when you have something else to do, just let me know, and perhaps I could come back another time. But I'm interested in the growth of tourism in Cherokee, and would be, and would like for you to tell me what you could about that. BD: Well, when I first came to Qualla 24 years ago, our gross was probably about $30,000.00 a year. Lots less than $50,000.00. Now we're grossing over $1,000,000.00 a year, so that tells you how. Of course, back when this place was first organized, or Qualla was first established, we probably didn't even have a paved road through here. If we did it was only one. We had no tourists. By, you know, after the second World War, there was, nobody had much of anything. It was, and it has grown, and I don't think now that the people who first thought about Qualla, started organizing and planning, whatever they did, ever dream that it could grow to this, to what it is today. I, it's, I think it would have blown their minds, if some of, that it would grow to, well, we're getting a few people today- uh, but it has you know just grown. The people got here are advertising, of course they didn't do a lot of advertising. When I came here, the manager that had been here before would not take a check or a DuPree 12 credit card. Of course, there wasn't that many credit cards then. She didn't want anything but cash, you know, and this thing. Last year we didn't lose a single personal check, we don't, we just take them at face value. We didn't lose on one of them. And of course, credit cards are the way of life anymore. And this type of merchandise, they don't have to have it. They have to buy gas and eat and sleep. But they don't have to buy baskets, so we have to make it as easy as possible for them. Our location at the time helped, being right, you know, on the highway to Gatlinburg. Cause at that time, back after, well this building we built and occupied in 1960, that there was the only place you could go would be to Gatlinburg, and back so the main traffic was through here. And it was just establishing a good track record and having quality merchandise for a fairly good price, and guaranteed what we sold and making sure it was all authentic and no junk, and running the place like a business. It hadn't been like that before. And its big business, we treat it as a big business. But the people had to slowly come. There had to be a lot of advertising on, well I don't know whether there was or not. The people spent it. A few years ago, I served on the Travel and Promotion Board, we had $250,000.00 to pay for advertising. At that time, Pigeon Forge was spending over $600,000.00 a year. And there's no way we can compete with that, but we've done, you know, done something. Maybe everybody's trying to get to Pigeon Forge and they have to come through here. But it's just been a constant battle with people that have been in business forever, you know, trying to do, and make sure people are happy so they come again next year. Word of mouth, I still think is the best advertising you can do. And if you're gonna make somebody happy then they're gonna tell somebody else, and maybe six more people will come or something like that. We have a lot of school groups, and one year we had a father come in the summertime, he said, “My child came on a school trip back in May, and she talked about it so much when she got home, we decided we'd come for vacation.” And you know things like that. So we try to make it as pleasant as we can and want them to come back and help them and accommodating as we can be. And it's a constant battle. I got really tired of the travel and Promotion office, which I realize is a very important part of our operation here in Cherokee, but it's the same group of people that help you do anything. Of course, we get money off of the tribal levy so we really wasn't you know, having to depend on what the Council gave us, but it was a percentage of the tribal levy and it's such a low dollar in their budget. But anything would beat nothing, and our Travel and Promotion offices have been in little rooms here and there and finally we got a fairly decent building but it's about a fourth of what the size that it ought to be. But it's just a constant battle with trying to do anything. Any time we can get a story in some magazine or publication that doesn't cost us anything that's great. I'll tell them about my catalogue and our phone number. National Geographic gives us a lot of coverage with articles they do, they're very good to put, you know, where we are and who we are. So, it's a constant battle. WM: Well, perhaps this exhibit will help. BD: Yea. Uh-huh. WM: We're planning to, uh, Suzanne McDowell, who's the curator of the exhibit said that we're planning to, in telling the history of tourism, we're planning to close with Cherokee. And since this is the most recent development, so I'm certain that people will see the exhibit and will want to come see you. Cause it's not, it's a real quick trip between here and there. Um, let me see how much tape we've got left, this is- can you think, what would you say the biggest change has been in the tourist trade in Cherokee? From back before there was until now. I know that’s a broad question. BD: Well, I think the accommodations have gotten much better. At one time there was two or DuPree 13 three little, we always call them the holiday rat holes, but little dinky motels. There wasn’t many places, you know, to stay, and I think people have gotten- END OF SIDE 1 BD: More pride in their establishments and trying to you know, and they realize the importance of getting more people to come or to stay longer. I think staying longer would really help us if we could get enough to go on so they could stay 3 or 4 nights instead of 2 or something like that. And people I think you know 25 years ago or so, North Carolina I don't think even had a chapter of Indian history in their textbooks, and now, I think they're doing a fairly good job. There's a big interest in Indians, children are learning about it and they're wanting you know, to get out, and of course now the last years they're all Indians, but they just, I think just progress. WM: Well could you tell me a little bit about all the Indians coming? BD: Oh. 99% of the people that walk into this shop had a fullblooded Cherokee grandmother. But they don't remember, they don't know her name, which I find really strange, because we have always been taught, we always knew our grandparents' name. Knew, you know, not great-grandparents, I never knew them, but I knew exactly what their names were. And they don't know their names. They're here, and that's big business too, helping them search their heritage. The Tribal office does it, and there's a couple of independent people that do it, but they all, and I don't know what made all of a sudden, everybody want to be an Indian. It's just, they'll say, 'Well we're not interested in the money'. Well you know where were you forty years ago? Why don't you, that's what bothers me, cause we were raised here, we were raised Indians, we are Indians, and this stuff. And I know, we lived in places where anybody that could, it was almost like the Black people, pass off for white, the Indians were the very same way. And that's where a lot of it was lost, because they didn't want to be Indians and now I don't know whether they think they're all gonna get rich on casinos and they all want to be in the line, I don't know. But every single person that comes in, 'Well, my great-grandmother, we wonder how we check our heritage. His great-grandmother was a fullblood Cherokee and we just want to know. Now can't you, look at this child. Can't you see the Indian features?' Well, no. It's really, it gets to be a big joke. But, of course, they're I guess really sincere, and some of them can go to that Bob Blankenship Cherokee roots, and if they know names they can find ancestors. And I told my staff, I said, 'Even Black people', I said 'The Cherokees had slaves. Don't even doubt them, because they probably are, could be on a roll too. And they’ll go and they’ll find a name, so usually if they're really serious about tracing their heritage we say go look at that first, that book's $10.00. And if you can find anything, cause you have to have names and dates to kind of trace this. And then if you find it in there, then you can go on, and pay more money to have somebody else do it, or go to the library and do it yourself. So, they, we kind of help them along, we also have one of the same books with the Oklahoma Cherokees. So 'We think my great-grandmother came from Oklahoma,' well, we've got a book for that, so go ahead and find it. But they, they are thick. WM: Well, some people, I suspect some people are kind of disgusted with American society and long for a, I don't know, purer, purer roots, and they see the Native Americans as being above the acquisitiveness of most Americans and would like to make some claim in for that. BD: In the paper the other week, over at Old Fort, did you, in the Asheville Citizen, this woman, who's this Cherokee medicine woman, we never heard of her around anywhere here, but anyway she's over there claiming to be an Indian. Now I have a little problem with that, people that write these articles, I mean they feel like they almost ought to be like we are with the Arts and Crafts law, they need to really make sure.T here' s another one in Asheville, that Mary Jo Moore, I met here a couple of weeks ago, she wrote an article in this magazine, and I got real DuPree 14 upset with it when I read it. It says that she claims herself as an Eastern Cherokee. She's not an Eastern Cherokee. And see they're just taking her at her word. I you know I have just a little problem with that. WM: Well, I can certainly understand it, because by people claiming to be Cherokee who aren't kind of diminishes people who are Cherokee. So I can certainly see your point. BD: Yea. And, but you know for a long time, well, like the four members we got here at Qualla that were not enrolled members, they had just gone through life saying they were Cherokee, and no one doubted it. I don't think you can do that anymore, but when, I'm tempted to write and ask them if they checked out her qualifications, cause she went over and did a workshop last summer, teaching all this Indian stuff. And I don't know where she came from, she just appeared all of a sudden. Princess Pale Moon, remember her? WM: Afraid not. BD: Well, she was born and raised in Asheville. And all of a sudden, she's off up in Washington, now she's was born here in Cherokee and raised and didn't speak English until she got grown. And she's made a fortune over the years using that. And that really bothers me. And she's very pleasant. I like her. But every time, and you'll see her on football games, and walking around, singing the national anthem, and dressed up with every tribe, something, a garb on, but I thought, well if you're gonna claim to be a Cherokee, wear an old cotton dress and your apron so you'll look like them. It's, it really kind of bothers me. I thought, oh, well, I'm too old to worry about all that, I'll do something I can do something about. WM: Well, if it's any consolation, I certainly appreciate your concerns, because in folklore, you see a lot of people claiming things that they, that they really shouldn't. But you could talk a little bit about the effect of tourism on the Cherokee community. BD: At one, now I don't know right now, I think it's still pretty good, but it, Qualla, with us being able to buy during the winter months, this was created as a marketplace for these people. And we bought and then the tourists got here in the summer and we sold it, so then we had money to buy again the next winter. So that's played a big impact on people. We don't turn down a single thing during the winter months here unless it's just so inferior that we cannot sell it. Or too high a price and we can't negotiate a price. When they come from their home 15 miles up in the mountains, we're gonna be here unless the snow is 6 feet deep or something like that. I'll tell them that we're closed a half a day on Christmas if it snows, but that's not really exactly the way it is. And we're here, it's a market, they know when they leave home we're gonna be open, it's gonna be here. We know when summertime comes, we're gonna be able to sell this. If the tourists didn't come, we couldn't sell it. And we couldn't buy it next winter. And I told my craftspeople at one of our meetings, I said we don't know what the casino's gonna do to us. It may cut out our customers. There may be a winter where we will not be able to buy anything. We hope not. And we, you know, I said, even though we have money, we can't spend all the money, because we still have to pay the light bill, we don't want to be like the turtle up in New York, not be able to pay our light bill. We've got, you know, we'd cut back on salaries and everything else, but I said we may not be able to buy anything, so we have to think about that. But the tourists have always come, and we say we can tell spring is here, we don't have to look at the robins, we just see the tourists. As long as they come and we can sell it, and then we'll be able to buy. But if they didn't come, we couldn't do it. So it has a big impact on our craftspeople. DuPree 15 WM: Well, do you feel like the people on the reservation welcome the tourists, tolerate the tourists, or resent the tourists? BD: They probably tolerate them. I know I do. WM: Could you tell me a little bit more about that? BD: Well, I welcome them. This time of the year I'm really happy to see them. In the summertime when the traffic is so heavy you have to try to be real patient, and think now they're gonna pay me next winter. They're paying my salary next winter. I'm gonna eat because of them. I'll sit here in this traffic and you know, take it. The craftspeople are the same way. They of course, they don't have as much contact, the majority of them, we do day to day, but they'll come in, the craftspeople will come in and ask just, well how are we doing, you know, are the tourists buying anything, and they're really concerned about the you know, how we're doing with the store and if we're making money, and this thing. But we have one employee who lives in Big Cove, and she works just on Saturdays, every Saturday morning when she starts to work, every camper has got up and broken up camp and driving down the road at about 15 miles an hour. And she gets a little disturbed. We threatened to buy her a red light, so she can put it on top of her vehicle and, cause there’s nowhere to pass up there. But you know, it's just really the traffic jams and going to the supermarket and standing in line, and things like that. But we try to be real patient, and know that we'll be able to buy baskets next winter, and we'll eat a little better and things like that. But I think just tolerate them probably would, of course there's some of them like Dennis that probably welcomes them to come. And as I said this time of the year I'm sure glad to see them too. But it, it's kind of a wild- WM: What about the folks who come looking for the teepees and come looking for, you know, the Hollywood image of Native Americans? How do you all feel about that, and how do you deal with that? BD: Well they ask where the Indians live, and when you tell them any direction you've come in you've been driving 5 or 10 miles or more, and all these homes you've seen alongside the side of the roads are Indian homes. Well, that kinda blows 'em. And well, now somebody told me there's a place with teepees. We never have figured out where that is. One's father-in-law had been down here, and the teepees, you could go visit the teepees for free. Well, we never figured that out either, so. We try to tell them as nice as we can that those are the Indian homes, that the Cherokee have never lived in teepees, that they've always lived in log cabins because of the terrain and they always had the trees and they could build log cabins and the influence of the mountain people that came through. We try to do it as nice as we can about that, and feathers that those are of other tribes, but not here and they're just props for the people that want to have their picture taken with an Indian. And then they, a little sheepish and you know, they're thinking maybe we're not as smart as we thought. We should have known that. So we try to do it as tactful and nice as we can so we don't offend anyone, unless they- WM: Try to make them feel smarter. BD: Yea, and maybe, tell them this. We have a little book over there, this Cherokee Past and Present. And it has lots of stuff like that. And in the back it has some questions and answers, and that's one of the questions, so usually we kind of show them that, and they get to, we sell I think DuPree 16 the people are gonna be better educated, hopefully. They buy more books, that's what I've got out here, I started to get started on a book order. They buy more books on Indians than I have ever, we have, we sell a ton of them. I said, if you could make lots of money on books, we'd be rich for sure. But oh, they buy books. It is unreal. And all we carry are Indian related, preferably southeastern but, it is unreal the ton of books. We'll have people, well Tommy Lee Jones came in here and bought $100.00 worth of books when they were filming The Fugitive. And it's, you know, we sell tons of books. So hopefully they'll read all those books that they bought and be better educated. WM: Well that's certainly a good intention to have- BD: I'm always looking. I'm going over to Asheville here in the next few weeks to, my distributor and see what he's got new this year, just to find, anything kind of different. And even though the museum sells a ton of books, some of them are the same. We still do a big book order, business. But I'm the same way, if I'm out, I'll, I went out to Arizona and bought the same book-three years-in-a row. And I said somebody tell me I've already got this book about Geronimo. Don't let me buy another one. But we buy, I like books, so, but we're gonna educate them one way or the other. WM: Well, who would be some other people I could talk to about tourism in Cherokee and the history and development of tourism? BD: Um, let's see. Somebody that's worked with the economic development thing way back then. Of course some of these people are getting so old they can't hardly remember. Did you have Bob Blankenship anywhere on your list? WM: Now he's at the museum isn't he? BD: No, that's Ken over there. WM: Well, then no, I haven't. BD: Okay. He has the trout farms, up Big Cove, and he has been involved a long time in economic development and things like that. He's also the fellow that does the Cherokee Roots, those books and everything. He's been a long time, so he probably would be a good one. WM: Would, do you have his phone number here? BD: Uh-huh. I've got 497-9704. And that's his home, but usually he's around. And I think he, he's worked with the tribe and one time was in the planning office and things like that, so he would probably be a real good contact. And you know, give you more facts and more information. Another lady is, I don't know how, is Lois Farthing. She's up here at Newfound Lodge. WM: Lloyd? BD: Lois. L-o-i-s. Farthing. WM: Oh, Lois. DuPree 17 BD: Uh-huh. And uh- WM: Farthing? BD: Farthing. F-a-r-t-h-i-n-g. Or something like that. And she, they have been old, old time traders, they have been here since way back in the '40's. Her father, and then her, and she could probably you know, give you a lot of, I don't know whether, cause she's one that's been here way way back when, when you know, and really come up with the F-a-r-t-h-i-n-g, it's 497-2662. WM: 2662. 497-2662. BD: Uh-huh. WM: That's Newfound Lodge? BD: Newfound Lodge, uh-huh. WM: Okay. BD: And that's just right up the street here, but they've just been old time people here, business people, they've had, they had a motel, and probably just one of the first ones here. She could really tell you about, from the beginning, you know, up to now, and the, in fact, they're getting ready to put in a, I think a Fairfield Hotel, or something, up there behind McDonald's. So she would be another one, and Bob. Have you talked to Ray Blank, uh, Ray Kinsland over at the Boy's Club? WM: No. BD: Ray has been here for 35 years or so ago. And his father worked 45 years before Ray so they have a good, and he's at the Cherokee Boy's Club. WM: Okay. BD: And he has lots of information too. WM: Well, I'll give all these folks a shout. I do want to talk to Mr. Wolfe, because I mean, someone who gets out there and 'chiefs' deals with the tourists very directly and perhaps a different sort of tourist- BD: Well, he, they took him to Germany, was it last year? WM: I think he said he went there last year. BD: And uh, some of our business people just thought that was terrible, to go off and take the feathers and the teepee over there, but that, you know you kind of give people what they want to see, and I didn't have any problem with it. I thought no, if that's what they want, they're taking a dancer this year, Mr. Redmond told me this morning, and I know he's gonna use all the feathers and everything, but you gotta do something to attract their attention and let them come. Now DuPree 18 one time Henry Lambert, who 'chiefs' up here, he can make $75,000.00 a year. And he told that. I read that in the paper. So I don't know whether the IRS got wind of it or not. But there's all- WM: Henry? BD: Henry Lambert. Chief Henry. WM: Um, would it be possible for me to talk with him? BD: I don’t know whether he’s out, but he’s up here around the Saunooke Village, off over there is where he 'chiefs'. I don't know, if Dennis is out, he probably is. And you might drive up there around the Saunooke Village, it's across- WM: Saunooke, how do you? BD: S-a-u-n-o-o-k-e. WM: S-a-u-n-o-o-k-e. BD: K-e. I don't remember, but when you go, if you go up here to the traffic light, and then you'll make a right, and right to the left as you cross the bridge there's a whole bunch of shops. He's not there, he's kind of across the road. I've seen him up there, but I don't know exactly what shop. See I don't go to get my picture taken with the feathers! WM: Well, do you think that he or Dennis would expect some payment from us for you know, this information? BD: Un-nuh. WM: Because when I was talking with Mr. Wolfe, I couldn't tell if he was- BD: No, un-nuh. WM: If he was looking at me as another tourist or- BD: No, I, I'd explain to him what you were doing and it's promoting him, I mean that's the way I, I feel, that it's gonna promote, if not the Qualla, maybe Cherokee. As I say, once I get 'em to the traffic light, I've got 'em. WM: I wouldn't want to insult- BD: No. I'd explain to him, but I don't think Dennis, now I don't know about Henry. I think they both would be willing to talk. WM: I talked with Mr. Wolfe at the Pizza Inn but that was probably not the best place to interview as I'm interviewing you, and he said that you know, that Indians they want to get to know you before they start sharing themselves with you, and BD: Well tell him I've come and I've bared the soul about the family, so! His mother and I are first cousins. DuPree 19 WM: Well, perhaps if you see him before I do you could tell him that we're out visiting- BD: Okay. He comes by, well, we had to pack his feathers to go to Germany, so he owes us one. He came, he was gonna ship them UPS and it was the day they were leaving, and we said you’ll never get them for what you’re gonna do. So we packed them and he carried them under his arms. WM: Well, he said that, you know, he used that to draw people in, and then he proceeded to educate them about- BD: He does a very good job. One of the National Geographic articles, they had an article about him, and he did a, they're really smart people, that family. We somehow, we didn't get all the smart, but they're, his sister, I don't know whether you know of Angela and Steven, she works for Jackson County schools, I guess as sort of a counselor, or something. WM: No, no ma'am I didn't know that. BD: Uh-huh. Yea. And they're, another one of his sisters is a registered nurse. His, well, Jerry that was just in here, his three of his sisters had probably the best college education of any, any, you know, Indian women, and of course they're older women now and everything. But they went on to school and they really done outstanding things with, for Indian people. We're, one, Rose was a teacher, and Mary worked for Social Services, and they really, this was back, they're 75 years old now so it was way back you know, when people weren't going to school. But they were really encouraged to go to school. But they, and Dennis, I'm sure, is just as smart as, in fact, we've said they're so smart, that there's two of them that were, you know, not quite right, we decided they had to, they were just too smart or something. And one of them died, and then Tony is still around. Now Tony is kind of not really handicapped, cause he holds down a full-time job and everything. He works down here at the supermarket so there's really, you know, maybe they just, but they have all really been, really, really smart. And really did something with their brain, which is always good too, you know, cause you hate to see it wasted. No, Dennis is real sharp. But I've liked the articles that he's done in the National Geographies mostly, they, but to try to educate people to, you know, the way, he's probably telling them the same thing, um, we are, you know, that this is what we're doing. But you have to have someone to, and the foreigners, that's what they want, they want their picture taken with an Indian. They don't want to get out by a log cabin and have somebody that look like me to take their, you know, with their picture, that's not gonna be you know, too exciting to take home. WM: They want what is believable to them as portrayal- BD: Um-hmm. Yea. And even though they may, you know, they hear we've got this, I've got my picture riding a burro in Mexico, but you know, that's, I brought it back, and we had a big laugh over it. But you know, I don't know what they tell them when they get home. We went to Disneyworld in Paris last year- WM: Yea, Dan [York] said he went along with that. BD: Yea. And it was really surprising with the French people, they knew exactly where we were, and right away, oh the Cherokees from North Carolina. And it, and we get the German visitors here, oh, American Indian. And you know, I don’t know whether they think this is, they’re DuPree 20 all the same, all these Indians are the same, or what, but the French would say, oh, in North Carolina. And we thought that was an adventure too. 17 days of Micky Mouse. I don't ever want to see Mickey Mouse again! WM: I suspect that does get pretty weird. BD: Yea. And he talked French. And we had cast cards, we were just Disney employees, we could go anywhere we wanted as long as we had this card. And see Mickey Mouse behind the sets with his head off, holding his head under his arm, and him Black as he could be, you now, it just sort of, did a little, speaking French on top of that, it was, but it was good. It was an experience. When we got home and rested up, and realized what a good time we'd had. But boy, was it hard work. WM: I would guess that the Germans have such a massive, because of the Army bases in Germany, they just have a massive dose of American culture, and American movies and such, tend to present all Native Americans as the same. BD: As the same. I think so. We had a lot of servicemen and families that came to Disneyworld, but they were stationed different places. Most of them, or all, that we talked to, were doing their children, homeschooling their children. And they were up to a part where they, it was time to talk, to study about American Indians. So they were thrilled to death that we were here and had all these books and stuff on Indians, so we sold a lot of books to them, cause they were just at that point. And one woman, she said I didn't know what we were gonna do because we didn't even know anybody in the States to send for any of this stuff. But it was, but the Germans seemed like, you know, they, you know, it's just American Indians. And we had, one of my girls, her ex-husband, drove a tour bus and he was always, he was usually the driver that would bring the Germans, and he'd always bring them here. And they'd fall in that jewelry and they would buy that stuff until, and I thought, now maybe they're thinking that's Cherokee. But they bought it, we tried to tell them that it wasn't, but it was Indians. WM: Well, do you find that the tourists who come here are from any one particular part of the country, or any, I mean, do you get a sense of the mix of the people that come in here? BD: Uh, the majority of our people I think come within a 300-miles radius of Cherokee. We have them from all 50 states, and usually about 30 foreign countries a year. And that, we take from our guest book with, we'll have them from every state in the Union, and then other foreign countries. So it's a pretty good mix. But the majority of them, like in the summertime come within a 300-mile radius. From now until about the first of June, we'll have them from California to Wisconsin, you know everywhere. And most, a lot of those are bus tours, like the ones from California, they'll fly to Nashville, and I guess they go to things in Nashville and then they bus 'em on through here, and maybe take them on to Atlanta and then they fly back to California. Same with Wisconsin. Those are big money tours, when they come in we know we're gonna sell a lot of stuff. Gonna ship their baskets or whatever they want. In the summer once schools are out and everything, it’s you know not more than a 3 or 400-mile radius of Cherokee. WM: And um, about when does the tourist season draw to a close? BD: Uh, about Thanksgiving. We'll hold up pretty well through Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving is a big week for us, and it'll slow down after October. Of course the weather has a lot to do with DuPree 21 is, but after, end of October, and the time change, and everything, we do pretty well until Thanksgiving, and that's a big week, and then after that it kinda, kinda dies. We have a sale in December so we, that's when we draw our local people is in is in December to our sale. And we have, that's, we've been doing that a good many years, and we don't even advertise any more. People start calling, when does your sale start? They'll come from Knoxville and Asheville and all around and come back to our sales. WM: Are you all relieved to see the end of the season come? BD: It's, we're ready for it. And we kinda slow down a little bit the first of November, and then Thanksgiving pops up again, and it's a real busy week and weekend. I guess people are going different places and after that, we just sort of want to collapse. But then we have to start working on our inventory. We do our inventory at the first of the year. And headwork, when we have 9,000 pieces of headwork, we start counting that as quick as, cause we haven't really started buying, well November we start buying pretty heavy, and we try to count it as it comes in so we won't have this bushels of beadwork to count any certain day. So we're working on that right along, and our hours change a little bit, we shorten our day just a little bit, and we work like everything til the first of January, and get all that, we tear this whole store completely down, count everything, clean it from ceiling to floor, put it back up, start right over again. WM: You all are getting ready to start this again? BD: Yea. WM: Well, I certainly appreciate you taking the time to talk with me. l feel like I've gotten a lot, a much better understanding - BD: Appreciate you coming by, and glad to help you in any way we can. Have you got one of our catalogues? WM: No I don't. BD: I'll go get you one of our catalogues, and that has… END OF SIDE 2

Betty DuPree of Cherokee, the manager of Qualla Arts & Crafts Mutual, begins by discussing the history of Qualla Arts & Crafts, which began in 1946 and has been important in preserving traditional Cherokee crafts and has had a great impact on the local economy. She began working with the organization in the 1970s, and she talks about the administrative and organizational structure of the organization and its dealings with individual craftspeople, as well as its trade with other Indian tribes. DuPree addresses some issues with fraudulent crafts and compliance with federal laws about Indian crafts and the importance of authenticity, and then talks about the importance of tourism to the Cherokee economy and her perception of the tourists who come through the area. She then discusses how crafts are sold through the mail, and tells some anecdotes about some of the more unusual things that the shop has sold and discusses how she promotes the cooperative and what it offers. The interview then shifts to the growth of tourism in Cherokee and how the cooperative’s business has grown along with it, and she talks about the increasing numbers of people claiming Indian heritage and her attitudes toward them. Tourism is then discussed again, and DuPree talks about how tourists are perceived in the Cherokee community as well as the attitudes of tourists themselves, and their expectations and lack of knowledge about the Cherokee. DuPree also offers the interviewer suggestions of people he should speak with about tourism, and she spends some time talking about foreign perceptions of the Cherokee and other American Indians and the demographics of American tourists in Cherokee and how it changes over the course of the tourist season.

• Creator
  • DuPree, Betty Craig, 1929-2012
• Contributor
  • Mansfield, William
• Format
  • Sound recordings
  • Transcripts
  • Interviews
• Type
  • Sound
  • Text
• Date
  • Date interview: 1996-03-04
  • Date: 1940s; 1970s; 1980s; 1990s;
  • Date digitized: 2015-05-22
• Extent
  • Duration: 01:18:37 (sound recording)
  • Duration: 21 pages (transcript)
• Subject - Topic
  • Arts
  • Cherokee art -- Economic aspects
  • Cherokee Indians -- Attitudes
  • Community organizations
  • DuPree, Betty Craig, 1929-2012 -- Interviews
  • Indigenous American reservations
  • Indigenous American tourism
  • Qualla Arts and Crafts Mutual, Inc.
  • Tourism
  • Tourists -- North Carolina -- Cherokee Indian Reservation
• Location
  • Qualla Boundary
  • Appalachian Region, Southern
  • North Carolina
• Source institution
  • Western Carolina University
• Source Collection
  • WCU Mountain Heritage Center Oral Histories
• Identifier
  • MHC_Mansfield_DuPree_1996-03-04
• Repository
  • Western Carolina University Mountain Heritage Center