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Interview with Amy Ammons Garza

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  • Amy Ammons Garza recalls listening to her grandfather’s stories about the history and people of Jackson County, and how he encouraged her to remember and pass them on. At age 39 she dreamed of her grandfather and this prompted her to go to college for the first time where her English professor had her tell stories to his beginning classes. It was also during this time she wrote her first novel, ‘Retter.’ Garza states that, as a professional storyteller, she varies her stories according to her audience, for example, she tells stories of her childhood to school children while to adults she presents stories full of nostalgia. She values the tradition of storytelling pointing out it helps people find their roots.
  • Interview with Amy Ammons Garza Interviewer: Laura Lansford November 9, 2009 Mrs. Garza's home, Sylva, NC Laura Lansford: Alright, this is Laura Lansford interviewing Amy Garza, it is November 91 h, 2009. Alright, we're just going to start with the basic stuff. Where are you originally from? Amy Garza: Jackson County, Born and raised in Tuckaseegee. • LL: There you go, did you spend your entire childhood here or did you move anywhere else? AG: My dad was a jack of all trades, had to be in those days, so we did move around a little bit, but most of my young life was spent here in Jackson county up until the age of 16, and then we moved to Greenville, South Carolina where he became a foreman of Davis Mechanical, and I graduated with strangers at Carolina High School in Greenville. And I was ... joined the air force and I was in the air force up untill963 .. 62 .. 63. And I married there and went with my husband to Northwest Indiana, was in Northwest Indiana until20 years ago, when I believe I was called to come home. And came home to work with children, through storytelling in schools, and have been doing it for 20 years, back home. LL: Good Deal, Did you, when you were growing up you said you moved around a little bit, did you have a big family structure or was it just your immediate family? AG: Well I was, my immediate family was my mom and dad and my sister and brother, there was three of us children, and we were, we grew up in a cove in Tuckaseegee so it was three of us against the world you might say; because we didn't have any neighbors and we didn't have electricity or plumbing and the 3 of us became very very close because we took care of each other. The only time we did have a lot of family relations was on holidays. Very seldom did we get to go anywhere because daddy only had a logging truck. And so we'd come to Sylva maybe once a month, on the back of the logging truck, with the wind blowing in our hair! [laughing] But we did go ... many times we went to Tuckaseegee, the little town ofTuckaseegee during the, let's see like once a week, and then daddy would treat us to an RC and a moon-pie. LL: I love RC Cola! I tried to explain RC Cola to people in California, because I went to college in California, but nobody understood what it was. [laughing] They knew what moon-pies were but not RC Cola. Let's see here, how old were you when you started telling stories? Like, did you tell stories as a kid or was it not until after you got out of the air force that you started telling stories? AG: I was blessed, I had a grandfather that told me stories. He would sit and tell me the best stories about the people who came before, the people who crossed the mountains and settled here. I'm 71 h generation Jackson County. LL: Oh wow. AG: And now I know where all my people came from before that. But. .. as a child I gathered all those stories, I listened, I was a listener. And I was a reader, I read all the time. And I listened to the stories and I stored them away in my heart. And since I was the oldest of all the grandchildren, my grandfather told me it was my responsibility to save the stories, and I took it seriously. But life took over, you know, there's a lot of hardships and a lot of crying and, and a lot of sadness, and when ... the main reason I went in the air force ... and then ... I was sort ofrunnin' away from home. And then, I had my children, and that was my focus until I was age 39. Age 39 all those stories grandpa told me started comin' up. They got stuck in my throat, you know they were co min'. I could hear him, I could .. .I started dreamin' about grandpa, and him tellin' me 'you gotta save the stories, go back to the beginning' and 'you know the beginning' [light laughing] I dreamed it, I mean, it was really a forceful thing. And I thought, well I don't have any education, I graduated high school, but I didn't go to college. I did have training in the air force, but. .. so I went to college with my oldest daughter. Purdue University. Went in, I made a really high score in English, blew 'em away! And went into my professor, Charles Tinkum, and said to him: I wanna write a novel. He said: why 'ont you write a poem. [laughing] That's what professors do, you know, start small. And I said I wanna write a novel, I wanna write about my grammaw and grampaw, I wanna tell the stories that grandpa told me. He said, why don't you go home and write me a poem and come back and I'll tell you if you can write a poem, write a novel. And to make a long story short, he told me I was a born writer. He said you've got the emotion, you've got the color, you've got the ... what it takes. And what he did was so amazing. He liked the way I wrote because I wrote in dialect. And I was writing about my love of the mountains, and I was corning back and forth through the mountains and getting a feel about goin' back, you know. And he started putting me in his beginning English class. 104? 103 ... 103 english class, and I was in 405 english, because that's where he started me. He said that's where I needed to be, in 405 english. Anyway, he started, you know, having me go in and talk to all his new students, and one day I said to him, I said, why are you doin' that? 'cause you're scarin' me to death! I have to go n' talk to these kids. And he said, I'm doing it because after you tell your stories you inspire them, so he told me and he taught me at that point that when you tell stories you inspire your audience. And that's what you do when tellin' stories, you inspire. And so ... don't waste your time just tellin' little stories. And see I'm a different kind of a storyteller so when I tell a story there's reason behind all of it, it's not just a little ... story. There's a moral, there's a lesson, there's, there's inspiration for that listener to either learn about themselves or learn about their community or to find your purpose in life, those kinds of things. So, storytelling has led me to do that, and that's ... I've had a lot of people surrounding me ... my first husband didn't believe, told me I was a fool for goin' to school, I was wastin' my time, who do you think you are? You don't know anything, and my 2"d husband however [laughing] was a big, big oh, support system. He played the accordion and he'd go with me to my book signins when I started writin' and all these book signins and he would tell me: you're full of wisdom, stand up there and talk [laughing] See, you ... to have the self confidence you need to have other people support you, they need to validate who you are. So, I finally had that, and this all happened, all started when I was 39. Wrote my first book Retter when I was 39 years old, and then my second book Cannie, I. .. was about two years after that that I. .. and my books started winnin' first place in all of Indiana, yeah, that's when I divorced my first husband. I mean I got that letter that you won first place, and I threw it up in the air and I said SO ... what do you say now?! [laughing] But anyway, then I wrote these two books and I have another book that's out of print right now called I am Somebody that I wrote, and it's different from my heritage books, it's on a young man who was murdered in the county. And the mother wanted me to write that book about him, and it's out of print now, it sold out in four months. Mmhmm. So these are my books that I take with me now everywhere. Matchbox Mountain and Catch the Spirit of Creativity where I teach the children to write, and Retter and Cannie and Sterlen is my last book, and it took me 11 years to write that book. Because I did all my geneaology and put it in that book because people keep askin' me all these questions, you know, who is this and who is that? So I really worked on that and got that done. So have I answered that question? LL: Yeah, I think so [laughing] Do you just tell the stories that your grandpa told you or do you tell other types of stories too? AG: I tell stories about myself when I was growing up, that's the biggest thing that I do in the schools with the kids. Because it's amazing to the kids, I mean, you know, when I tell stories my sister spontaneously illustrates the stories as I tell them. So we're called the Ammons Sisters, and we have gone all over the South, and we've told stories to 4000 fourth graders, and then and even to Franklin, where they didn't advertise that we were corning and there were three people in the audience when we showed up. And I told stories to three people, because they came. And so my sister illustrates those stories and then she gives the illustration away to the school, the teachers, or to the students. Or some foundations when we do foundations, will auction the picture off, yeah, so, in fact we're goin' to go to a foundation this week. We're goin' to the Mountain Foundation in Tennessee, and tell stories. LL: How do you decide what story you're going to tell in a certain place? Like if you're ... AG: Oh that is a wonderful question [laughing] Wonderful question, because my sister says that sometimes. But, you know, I have a standard set of stories that I tell that the children have shown me they liked the most, so those are the stories I tell to a new audience. To the children, in schools when I go to the schools. Like in December we're going to go to Claxton Elementary in Asheville and we're gonna tell stories to the whole school. Usually that's what happens when we go in to the schools. Instead of just a few little children, they want to expose all the children because the stories we tell are appropriate for all ages of students. But I change them accordingly. Like if I see, if it's elementary I tell the basic stories, if it's high school I switch and tell some more exciting stories like ... A finger, A Leg, and Fire ... I tell that story. And then I always, if it's a mixed audience, if it's adults, for adults the stories I tell it's full of nostalgia. If it's an all woman audience I tell women's stories. Stories that I've written in my novels. And if it's an all, very seldom is it an all man audience, but sometimes, like a Knights of olumbus or something, and I tell coon huntin' stories, that kind of story, you know. But, if it's a mixed audience and there's children, I'll tell the stories to the children. Cause those are my focus points because they've never heard them before. And the other will, they'll come in with the nostalgia, cause they're true stories. Every story I tell is true, I don't make up stories, I just.. .I tell the true stories. And sometimes truth is stranger than fiction [laughing] But to tell the story is .. .it's like I'm givin' them a slice of the life that we had when we were children. Like the children nowadays, they don't know what feed sack dresses are. They don't know what a feedsack is. LL: The only reason I know what a feed sack dress is, is 'cause I had to read a book on it last week. [both laughing] AG: And they don't know how to live without electricity. I mean, you know, I tell the stories and I get very explicit, like for example when we were growing up the three of us children slept in one bed, in the same bedroom as our mom and dad. There was only one bedroom in the house, so, and I tell the story, I say I'm the oldest I slept first, I'm the boss, you know. And my sister, she just gets, turns around and oh the kids start laughing. Cause they understand that you know, and I say my sister she slept over here and my brother, poor thing, he slept right across the bottom of that bed. And he better be good to us at LL: How you choose them. AG: So there's the way I decide who I tell what kind of stories I tell. LL: I know that how you were raised and where you grew up influenced the content of your stories, do you think it's influenced how you tell them? AG: Oh yeah. LL: The style you use to tell them? AG: See that's my sister's artwork, and this is us in Matchbox Mountain [brings out a book to point out the cover art]. This is a year of our life when we were growin' up. And in here you've got stories about the chicken hawk tryin' to get the chickens, and the weasel coming in, and you've got stories about my cucumber doll, which is my favorite story to tell 'cause the kids love that the most. The cucumber doll story, and the panther attacking grandma with three kids, they like that, and the story ofrows and rows of jars where granny saved all her money and put it in jars. And Calico the cat, and all those kind of stories, and then I end it with Christmas stories about how Santa Claus didn't actually come, But I still had, and I explain it in there very ... usually people cry over this story because I talk about my shoebox of diamonds and jewels ... which was actually apples and oranges and nuts, but I explain why it's diamonds and jewels. LL: Do you, when you tell a story especially to kids do you use a lot of participation from them? AG: Oh yes. One of the stories that I tell is about preachin' in the can house. First of all I ask 'em if they know what a can house is and they all say nooooo. I say well it's a house with cans in it. And they get real tickled there you know. It's a root cellar with jars of food in the bottom but in the top we had a second floor to ours because that's where they dried out, made leather britches and made dried fruit and all that, so the windows were open you know and the wind came through, and in that top of the can house was where we had our can house band. Where we had all of these instruments that we, when my mother couldn't cook in a pot anymore, and a spoon and a pot and a rub­board and all this. So my sister and I carry a big tub of can house instruments with us and I play the bucket base, and I play it and oh, they just love that! Because I explain how you make it before I play it, and then I play the bucket base. And it's made out of a slop bucket, a piece of clothesline, and a broom handle. And then I explain how you make it and then I play it and oh my gosh, those eyes get THIS BIG and music teachers, the lights go off in their head, oh we can do that! And then we invite kids up and they take an instrument out and the play, and while they're playin' .. .I let somebody play my bucket base, and I dance with them. And I show 'em how we, of course I show 'em how my sister and I dance before all this starts so that they know already how to do it, it's so simple. Anyway, I have had little kids come up to me and say: I have never been chosen before to do anything! I've had kids, and see all my stories end one way, no matter what audience is out there I always end the stories with a poem that I wrote for my professor, that he told me I was a born writer. You wanna hear it? LL: Yeah! AG: This is the way I end all my performances: I ain't nobody I heard one day, hidin' behind the door I heard him say; She ain't nobody, she don't work a lick, she comes from poor folks back on the crick; Her paw makes liquor, her maw dips snuff; Her kinfolks bicker, just tash, sure 'nuff. So they threw me in ajar I wuddn't but a kid; They threw me iri there and then closed the lid. And now I've got a label, this poor mountain kid; They branded me nobody, that's what they did. I ain't nobody. [tearing up] But somethin' wonderful happened when I wrote that poem ... because it wasn't inside anymore, it was on that piece of paper. So I got another piece of paper and I started writing. I'm nobody I heard him say. How did I let him treat me this way, why was I there behind the door. Give me .. .let's see .. .I'm too nervous [laughing] I ain't nobody I heard him say, why am I lettin' him treat me this way? Why was I there behind the door? Let ME tell 'em, give me the floor. It was MY kin, bible in hand, who fought and farmed and settled this land. And my paw and maw through their seed gave me a longin' only books can feed. They gave me wealth that money can't buy, A pride in family and a spirit in the eye! And what grandpa had he gave to me, it's in my heart for the world to see. My people are strong, they made me free, they fought and won, but now, it's up to me. I am somebody. Then I have all the audience say it with me, and I make 'em yell it. I AM SOMEBODY!! [laughing] And the little kids come up to me afterwards, pull on my skirt and say: I like your poem. They did that to me. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I have had ten, twelve year olds especially, tell me that people have said that to them. And at the very end I say I have two pieces of advice. Don't let anybody put their littleness on you, and for goodness sakes be careful what you say to your neighbor, because one sentence can change your life. Because you know, I always tell 'em why I wrote that poem, where it came from. It came from some boy in the eighth grade laughin at my feed sack dress, and then all the class laughin' at me. So they all understand, you know, it's done in such a simple way, in simple language, so nobody can walk away and say they didn't learn something from it, you know. I have teachers, all kinds of teachers tellin' me that's exactly what their kids needed to hear. So that's why I say storytelling for my sister and myself is because of things that have happened to us in our lifetime. We are hitting mainly, we love to do the fourth grade, because in the fourth grade ifthey hear this, I AM SOMEBODY! You know? By the time that they get to the fifth grade when people start really coming down on 'em and they start changing, if they got that in their mind somewhere, some day, you know, I've had kids, grown kids tell me: oh you helped me so much, I'm goin' to college! 'Cause I always tell 'em you gotta go to school. You know, find out what it is that's your talent and then direct everything toward it. I have an opportunity to tell the kids this while I have their attention. And I have their attention while they're watching Dorey! draw. LL: So it's not just somebody being like hey, go to school! AG: And there's a whole reason behind my sister and myself drawing, telling and drawing, because I represent the left brain, with the words, and my sister represents the right brain with the pictures, and you put the two of them together, and whoever is out there, however they learn, either visual or orally, aurally, however they learn, they get the message. And they are basically watching my sister bring what I say alive. And so it's total communication. Because I hit their hearts, and I hit their intellect, you know. LL: Are you and your sister the only people you know of that do the stories like that, that have someone telling the story and drawing? AG: As far as I know. LL: I've never heard of anybody else doin' it, that's why. AG: There's some people down in Atlanta that does this, but I don't think it's sisters. You know, it's like an artist and a writer get together and do something like this. I've heard ofthat but I've never seen it anywhere. In fact, that's what makes us so different. Now I can go and tell stories by myself, which I'm gonna do this Saturday at the Great Smokies book fair. I'll tell stories by myself for a half hour, you know, don't wanna get my sister down here to do that when I can do it in a half hour. But, but when we .. .like these big foundations that we go and do this for, we go in our little granny dresses, and she's got this 6 foot by 8 foot board. And she, I mean shhhooooeeew! Charcoal, you know, it's pastels, pastel dust is what she, and she's been drawin' all her life and has made her livin' all her life through art. LL: That's hard to do. AG: She has a master's degree in biomedical art. She draws what she sees in the microscope. She can draw everything in your body. 'Cause she was gonna be a doctor and she went two years and then she changed her mind and became a medical illustrator. So she's got a fine arts degree and a biomedical degree in art. LL: I didn't even know they had that degree. AG: She's very rare in the United States. She's very rare, and a lot of people don't know that. And I tell people that, and kids especially when they're at the age when they're making their decisions, you know, like teenagers, I on purpose tell them that, because you know, so many people say you can't make a livin' through art. My sister illustrated and made the first logo for the very first pacemaker. For Johnson and Johnson, in California. She did that. And she's had Smithsonian touring her art, her art toured with the Smithsonian throughout the United States, she has artwork in the pentagon. And I tell the kids that and now she's drawin' behind me! [laughing] LL: Do you think that the kids, when you're telling stories to kids, and adults for that matter, do you think that they see the meaning of the story the same way that you do? AG: Oh yes. They can't help but, because of the left and right brain ... ***Battery in tape recorder dies, Mrs. Garza lends me batteries, and then we continue in new file, part 2*** LL: Okay, there we go, after that small setback ... Can you think of any time in particular that you had to tell either less stories or more stories, like something that was going on influenced like people wanting stories told? Actually, let me rephrase that, have events going on like political climate, war, anything like that, has that affected just, the specific stories that you tell or the people that you are called to tell them to? AG: Most of the time it's been educational venues that we've had, we tell stories. We had one story over at Lake Junaluska where they wanted to, wanted me to bring other people involved. There's a couple ofthings that, that we've done, I brought with me Josh Boola (spelling of last name approximated) who played the bagpipes and harp, and we told stories to teachers who were from the 8th county district, and they wanted to hear stories that had music involved with it, and so I, we wrote everything, and we performed that and I got a Iotta work outta that. For about two years these people would call me up and we'd go in to some of these schools from the teachers that heard us. But the most thing that they really like is self-esteem. They like that self ... they love my poem. They love that for to ... for the little mountain kids to hear that. Because ... and there's the REACH had me come out to battered women, and I, and it wasn't Dorey!, it was just me, and I did I Ain't Nobody to them, and oh they loved that! These battered women, you know. Then another instance that we did, we were chosen to represent Western North Carolina and go, they did a swap, in Alabama. Entertainers came from Alabama to Maggie Valley and, and then they asked me to do a whole program based around what kind of entertainment comes out of Western North Carolina, so I got some ... some bluegrass and I got the Cherokee drumming and storytelling and I got the Scotch-Irish dancers, the Braveheart dancers out of Franklin, and Dorey! and myself, and Josh. We brought Josh with the bagpipes, and I wrote a story about Western North Carolina and incorporated all of those those ... you know the history of North Carolina through all, started out with the Cherokee , you know and then come on up through that. And and with the Scotch Irish and then, and then just playin' bluegrass and then storytelling, to show how important storytelling was, in all of this. And the whole thing was telling the story of the mountains through these entertainers. And Dorey! illustrated the whole thing up on stage, you know. Boy we blew those people away! They couldn't believe they'd ever seen anything like that. And then, and then my sister and I started something called Heritage Alive. And ... LL: I've heard of that before. AG: Heritage Alive is something that we did, and we had the black, the yellow, the white, and the red from Western North Carolina. And we had a whole group, we did a whole show with Kamwina Bande ... Badimu (spelling approximated). Kamwina Ba ... Badimu, from Africa. And he came you know, with just a grass skirt on, and his face all painted, and his feathers up like this [Amy illustrates a feather head ornament with her hands] and drummin' you know, boom boom boom boom boom. You know [unintelligible] and then we did the same sort of thing with this, we toured 8 years all over the place. Yeah, with us, and then we had, had Daniel Spottedhorse Pheasant and his wife and what was so wonderful was to see Kamwina and Daniel dancin' together, you know, with Daniel was a fancy dancer and he would dance you know with the drums, and then I had Henry Queen with the banjo, and my sister and myself doin', representin' the Appalachian part, and so .. .it was, and then we had, and the yellow was Paul Canteen (spelling approximated)and Margie. They did the Cuban dance, you know, with the, and she had that big skirt on, and very colorful and her hair pulled back and a comb you know in her hair, and he was in that white, with his white hat you know, oh it was beautiful! So those are the, I guess that an .. .I don't know if that answers your question or not LL: Yeah, I think so. AG: But that's ... we've done those kind of things. LL: Have you noticed, over the time that you've been telling stories, have you noticed either, I guess more, more the style, have you noticed your style of the way you tell your stories changing over the time that you've been telling stories? AG: Well I've got, gotten easier. I. . .it's that I know so many stories now, so I can switch stories when the audience is different, and my, my sister never knows what I'm gonna do. If I switch a story, you know, and we've found that music really helps it, so now we have a recording that we take with us with, with ... and I've got it timed out so I can tell a story with the music and it. . .it makes the stories, there's a depth to the stories that wasn't there when I first started. So, you know, experience always tells. Now I can go into anywhere, it doesn't bother me to get up and speak. The only place that I have problems speaking is sometimes is at church, because it's so important you know. My, I have this vivid imagination, and I can, I can just see the Lord Jesus Christ sittin' down there, you know. That makes me nervous. [both laughing] LL: Just a little [both laughing] AG: But that's the only, cause it means a lot, it matters so much you know. So I get nervous in that, but other than that I can just go in anywhere and talk. And my sister and I did start Toastmasters here in Western North Carolina, so we're both DTM's, which is Distinguished Toastmasters. We've gone through that whole learning stage where we can stand up and speak and not say 'uh, uh,uh' all the time. LL: Yeah, that's me. Do you consider storytelling more of a job, or is just something you do because ... AG: It's a passion. LL: Yeah, because you HAVE to do it? AG: Oh it's a passion. Like I said before when I first started, I believe I was called. Words came out of the sky, I mean, just landed in my heart: It's Time! Two words, and I knew what it meant. I knew immediately that I had to quit what I was doin', I was a controller for three businesses in Chicago. I had to go home. So it's .. .it's passion, it's not anything else but that. LL: When Somebody asks you what you do, how do you answer them? Like 'oh what do you do?' do you say 'I'm a storytelling' or do you say a combination of things, like 'I'm a storyteller, I used to ... AG: First thing outta my mouth is: I'm a storyteller. And if they ask question you know I. . .it started with writing, you know, it started with writing my grandpa's stories. And with the knowledge that he told me I needed to save the stories. So I've done what he wanted me to do. And when I first got this book I cried and cried and cried and cried, and said Grandpa, I did it! LL: What do you think storytelling contributes to the Appalachian community besides just the self-esteem aspect? AG: Well, I've taken storytelling to the extreme with, in such a way as Catch the Spirit of Appalachia, a non-profit organization. Our goal is to save our heritage, to document it, in such a way that other people are not doing this. We encourage, I teach creative writing here at my house, once, one time a month. Second, second Saturday of every month, I teach creative writing. And I bring anybody who has a story to tell and wants to tell it, I teach them how. And each, each month they can do a, more chapters and more chapters of their books. So Catch the Spirit has now published 3'8 books. LL: Oh wow. AG: We have saved the heritage of these people, and most of these stories are about lives, their own lives. My writing class is called writing from the heart. And, that's what makes us all different, because we all .. .it's like pourin' milk into your heart. If you pour it all into your heart and churn it up, becomes buttermilk and, and the writing is the butter, It comes right out. And makes you different from any other person in this whole wide world. Cause we all have a story, and I encourage them to speak too, because in fact we just did this last week. In November we have a performance and I have all my writers stand up and do something for an audience. If you're gonna write a book, you're gonna have to talk. So I go a little bit further and I teach them how to tell their own stories, which is a marvelous thing to see. There's this one fella, Matthew Baker, he he was, graduated from Western, but he was in my Toastmasters group, and he was really shy. And he didn't, he was very nonchalant you know, and this has been 11, 12 years ago that he was in this group. And last year he, he came to me and he said Amy, I'm ready now, to write my book. And so, and he'd been writin' on it all this long, and he sent me his stuff and to make a long story short you know, I think it was in January, his book came out in January. It's called My Mountain Granny. He has changed like you wouldn't believe [laughing] He can stand up and talk to a crowd, he can tell his story, he has, is aggressively looking for markets for his book, and I am SO proud of him! [both laughing] I mean, he's completely changed, and that's what writing does for you. It, see the writing is the basic of telling your story because once you've written it you can see it. When you see it, you can tell it. It is .. .it's like the foundation. Once you've written your book, then then this is .. .it's easier to tell it, it's easier to tell the story. And once you get the self-confidence, and everybody can get that, all you have to do is do it, and that's how people learn how to write. I can stand up here and tell you about writing all day long .... [ladybugs begin to fall on the table between us] like my little, my little ladybugs, come out everywhere. LL: Like, Oh! hello! [laughing] AG: Anyway, I wrote an article about the ladybugs for my Fun Things to do in the Mountains. Oh ladybugs. LL: Do you think a lot of the other storytellers that are in like, the Appalachian storytellers, do you think that they're trying to preserve the heritage as much as you are? Or do you think that a lot of them are more just tellin' stories just to tell stories? AG: There's talent out there everywhere, and everyone has, has a gift. And each one is different, so I would never lump anybody into one category. There are some people who tell Jack tales, and those are stories that have been around forever, and in telling a Jack tale you're saving the heritage, because it's the heritage of the Jack tale. But it's not their story. You know, what I mean. So, I feel like there's room in this world for everyone. There's room for your story, there's room for my story, and the ... you have an audience and I have an audience. Audiences are different, and once you start tellin' stories and you have an audience, you start to see the mood of those people you're tell in' the story to. And as you get more confident in yourself you can switch your stories to gain back, like for example if you see people goin' to sleep in your audience, goin' to sleep, then you can turn around, and I can get that bass bucket and make a ... make 'em come to life, you know. But see, I know that, as a storyteller, and not only that, is I have a lot of patience, I, I'm ... blessed with patience. And so, in so many instances you have to have patience. For example if you get a heckler in an audience, then the best way to approach that is not with anger, is not with 'sit down and shut up' you know. You have to approach it with humor because when you get him laughing, you know, like for example I was yellin' and screamin' at my husband one, one time. It was over some little sillystuff, this was my second husband, and I, this changed the whole, our whole life together, because I was standing over him, he was sittin' on the couch, and I was standin' over him and I was sayin' what for and how come, you know, as loud as I could say it, and he turned around and looked at me and he smiled real big and he said 'You're beautiful when you're angry' [both laughing] It stopped me in my tracks! That was a lesson if you ever heard one. I mean, you can switch somebody just like that [both laughing] So, I guess that's the answer to your question. There, there's room for everybody and I wouldn't lump anybody into anything, and some people don't, think they don't have a story but they do. And so they take somebody else's story and they tell it. Which is good fodder you know, you learn how to tell a story that way, and when you get more self-confidence as you go along, then your stories can change. And you get, and you can tell your story, maybe the story is hurtful. Sometimes you know when I'm in school, and I'm talkin' about heritage, I had this one little boy one time, he says but I'm adopted! I mean, stops you in your tracks, cause I, I'm askin' the children to tell me stories about their family. And I said, I said well can you tell me a story about your mother, your adopted mother? 'oh yeah!' you know. She's your mother now, isn't she, you know, and all this, so I switch it around on 'em. LL: Have you noticed any change in, I guess in the world of storytelling with the advent of new technologies like ... AG: GOSH yes! LL: ... the internet, and [both laughing] AG: Gosh yes! Well, and especially, let's start with writing. When I wrote Retter, I wrote it in the backyard sittin' underneath a tree next to a stream, longhand. Wrote the whole thing longhand, my daughter typed it on a Electrolux typewriter. Now you type it on the computer you know, when 1... when I was, you know how many times I had to re-write it because I'd draw a line through it and say that's not when I wanted to do that and I wanna move that over here, move that over here. Nowadays you just type it on your computer and you just highlight it and move it, you know. You don't want it, you take it out. Oh it's so much easier. So easier. And I used to teach, when you're writing from your heart sometimes it needs to come from your heart down your arm and through your hand in order to get out. And sometimes that still has to happen, but once you get started, once you get into the flow, then the computer has really done wonders for writers. And not only in writing, but in publishing. Because nowadays you can publish on demand, like, like nothing. But storytelling now, what is so much good for storytelling is, is for example, I, if I go to an old folks home, and half of 'em can't hear, if I've got the right equipment, they can hear me. So, the equipment has helped the voice, you don't have to scream and holler, I've lost my voice, they, they wanted me to do stories on the Great Smoky Mountain Railroad train. Walk up and down the aisles and tell stories to people, you know, I couldn't talk by the end of the voyage [laughing] because of the clackity clackity clackity clackity, you know, and you're tryin' to tell a story and I've got a soft voice anyway. So, I, I don't do that. .. LL: Anymore [laughing] AG: And it's hard to work in a festival, See a storyteller has to have a decicated audience. They need to be there for the storytelling and that's all. If I'm at a festival and they want me to tell stories, I will only tell a story for 15 minutes or so, I'll tell one or two stories and that's it. Because people need to go look at somethin' else. So, yes, technology has really changed storytelling. LL: Do you think the ease of the computer and everything makes it, like encourages new storytellers to do it since it's so easy? AG: I think it's all in the want to's. It hasn't.. .just because there's a computer doesn't mean you're gonna sit down and tell a story. No, it's in the heart of the person, I can .. .I have writers who come to me .. .let's see, in January I started a new series of storytelling and writing and people, I'll advertise, and people will come and they'll sit down in here in my livin' room. I wanna do it in a non-threatening environment, you know, so that's why I do it in my home. And I can tell you by the time that first, first session is over I can tell you who's gonna be there the length of time and who's not. Because, you gotta wanna do it, you gotta want to do it. And if you don't want to do it and you're just doin' it for the fun of it, it's not gonna work. You may do it for a little while, but it's like somebody startin' a basket and puttin' it in the closet halfway done. So many people do that. It's the same with a story, because a story is intertwined like a basket. And, the, the story that you tell, for, sometimes you know, like I'm telling this story about the snake, let's say for example. Your memory has got, you know as I get older I see my memory sometimes lapses on me and I tell the story so many times to so many kids that I think I've said it already and I haven't, you know. [laughing] And I caught myself one time in this story that I tell, a snake slithers out from underneath the log and stands up in the water and looks at the child and says 'ssso my child ... why do you crosss my log so sssseldom now?' I'm supposed to say when that snake slithers out, he stands up [unintelligible] 'and I could see his brown and yellow and green stripes goin' all around' you know, [laughing] he stands up in the water and then he speaks you know, and that's called the twist of the tale, and I have the children watching for when the story twists, you know, they gotta, there's gotta be a ... when that snake starts to talk is when the first twists happen in the story, you know. But at the, now I'm getting' close to the end of the story and the reason I have to have the color of the stripes is because Aunt Belle is sittin', standing there in the doorway there at the top of the mountain, that's where I'm going you know, through the woods. And there she stands with that bowl in her arm and a spoon in her hand, and that yellow and green and brown striped dress, with stripes go in' all around. [both laughing] And there's another place where the story twists, you know. But, I forgot to say the stripes, [laughing] so I had to go back in the storytelling and I can ... 'and in my mind I could see that snake, standin' up in the water!' you know, and you have to know how to do that, otherwise you, you're in front of all these kids and you gotta make sense. Anyway, and after I get finished with the story, the last line of the story I say 'I reached for a biscuit, took a bite of wisdom ... and smiled'. And, so then I ask the audience, okay, where was the first twist? Oh! Where the snake talked! You know, and all this stuff, and somewhere in there I fall outta bed, see, and it turns into a dream you know, and then I'm • goin' back up the mountain to see Aunt Belle and there she is with that green, you know, twists again, and so I get it all in, there's about three of four twists in the story and then at the end I say, and I talk about the water, the pool of water with sand in it on the floor in the kitchen, and I ask 'em, what kind of evidence was there? So they tell me all this, and then I say 'and what do you think the wisdom was?' and the whole, the whole reason for this story, is because I didn't want to go see Aunt Belle because all she did was tell these same old stories over and over and over. But in the story, I talk about how I sat there and you know, my eyes glued to her because here she id in this striped dress you know, and really starin', listenin' to what she's sayin', and she, and then I notice how her face changes when she starts talkin' about her husband coming to get her in a horse and buggy, you know. And so children know all, know the answers, 'because she changed her mind! She liked the stories! [both laughing] LL: Is there anything that you want to talk about that I haven't brushed on in the questions, anything about storytelling or about. .. ? AG: Well I'll, I'll tell you, what I want to say about storytelling is ... we are at a time in our lives when storytelling is vanishing. And it should never do that. Should never do that. [Mrs. Garza pauses for a moment to gather herself, as she is starting to cry] It's because it gives you roots. And without roots, how can you blossom? And storytelling gives you roots. Helped me through bad times in my life, because I knew that if my grandmother saved the lives of three children with a panther, I could face the panthers in my life. And they come in all different shapes and sizes, colors. So, it. . .it helped me to know that about the family, about who you are. You can watch television all day and be engrossed in television but it has nothing to do with you. And the written word is a powerful thing, it should never ever be lost, and technology is changing that around a little bit and it'll, it's gonna be, they say that books are gonna be computers, you know. Little computers that you carry around. LL: I hate reading on the computer. AG: Oh I don't like that either. I ... when I'm editing a book I'll, I say I don't want to edit anything online, what you need to do is give me a hard copy. And then I can edit your book, but that, the, that's what I have to say about storytelling. It should be revered and saved, in every family. And I tell that to the kids, and I've seen over, probably, I would say about 2 million children. LL: Wow AG: During 20 years. LL: That's a LOT of people. AG: And the reason I say that, I can't even begin to count 'em! Because every school we've been to, most of the schools bring us all their children, like over in Swain county for ... we've done this like two or three times during this 20 years. The, Jenny Johnson, who's the director over there, she wants us to reach every child in the Swain county system, so what she does about every three years, she has us come back over there, and it takes us two days to get through all the children. They bus all the children into the Swain county Arts Center, and it holds about 500 each time, so we get, and we go all the way through the lth grade! I mean, we have all, and that's a haaaard audience, but, but let me tell you, when I did I Ain't Nobody, I Am Somebody, I got a standing ovation from those, those teenagers. Now, they need to hear that, our kids nowadays don't hear how wonderful and creative they are. They don't hear that you're a wonderful lady, you're a wonderful person, you are here for a reason, you've got things to do. Prepare yourself for it, go to school, get the best kinda grades you can get, get ready 'cause somethin' wonderful's gettin' ready to happen to you. Be on the lookout! I do that all the time, and I've been able to tell a lot of children that. [front door opens] Is that somebody? LL: Yeah [last ten seconds of recording are unrelated conversation between Mrs. Garza and her visitors, one is there to start making repairs on some part of the house, so the interview is ended where it was]
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